That look on Dan's face in the last panel.... it really seals the deal.
I don't get why Dan would be so shocked about that. After all, if he thinks that all `cubi are evil, then that should fit right into his worldview. Also, I'm not getting why Dan presumes that Abel is lying, but that Fi is not. But all in all, a fine comic.
And while I'm here, what happened to the clan marking on Fi?
Hey, whoa, it's gone. Probably the same place Aniz's wedding ring went for a short while. Hit refresh in a day or so, it'll be back.
And judging on Dan's bias, he's probably never really thought of his mother as a cubi cubi, just someone who happens to unimportantly be a cubi.
Quote from: superluser on September 02, 2007, 11:14:51 PMI don't get why Dan would be so shocked about that. After all, if he thinks that all `cubi are evil, then that should fit right into his worldview.
Well if that's the case, why doesn't he think the same thing about himself? Probably the same reason he doesn't think that about his mom.
Quote from: superluser on September 02, 2007, 11:14:51 PMAlso, I'm not getting why Dan presumes that Abel is lying, but that Fi is not.
Because Abel is a 'Cubi, which makes him evil, and evil people lie. :P 'Sides, it's 2-for-2.
Ah what a teacher indeed...Heh..I do thing it will be delightful see if Aary can keep with the same and familer habbit. And note...What a priceless look to realize your mum is a very very bad girl. >:3
For what it's worth it's better he accepted the truth from Fi rather then Abel. Thus allowing him to retain his manliness. :U
Heh heh heh...now we all see how wrong we were earlier about the reason behind Dan's initial reaction, or lack thereof, to Abel's rant about Dee.
I decided to dig up all the old stuff for the heck of it, so we can all do some cross-referenceing with our old assumptions, and laugh at them. I know it's long and alot, that's why the "..." are whole blocks of unneccessary text I deleted :B
Quote from: Psaakyrn on August 27, 2007, 04:10:10 AM
So.... It get more confusing as ever... but it seems Dan is smarter than he looks.
Notes:
...
Judging from his lack of reaction, he probably already know all this. (and from said book)[/u]
...
Quote from: je.saist on August 27, 2007, 04:12:31 AM
Dan has always been smarter than he let on. Keep in mind how long he lasted as an adventurer, and his fight against Dark Pegasus. [/u]
"It takes a smart fur to play dumb."
...
Quote from: Tapewolf on August 27, 2007, 04:40:30 AM
Quote from: Psaakyrn on August 27, 2007, 04:10:10 AM
How did Edward manage to tame such a beast?
...
Abel's reaction to the fact that Dan is only mildly perturbed should be interesting to see. I've always had a suspicion that Dan's goofiness is mostly just a front and it's starting to look that way.[/u]
Maybe it was that book which prompted the question?
Quote from: MT Hazard on August 27, 2007, 05:00:10 AM
...
Dan's reaction does seem a little off, he freaks out when he finds out his friend is gay (and fancies him) but doesn't bat an eyelid when told his mother is everything he fought against as an adventurer (and perhaps fears becoming himself). Depends on his method of rationalising I guess.[/u]
Quote from: Tapewolf on August 27, 2007, 05:32:41 AM
Quote from: MT Hazard on August 27, 2007, 05:00:10 AM
Dan's reaction does seem a little off, he freaks out when he finds out his friend is gay (and fancies him) but doesn't bat an eyelid when told his mother is everything he fought against as an adventurer (and perhaps fears becoming himself). Depends on his method of rationalising I guess.
...
To me his lack of reaction over his mother being everything he hates says that he must have guessed long ago. "The only thing I ever inherited from my mom was her wings, and that doesn't make me a ['cubi]" As I said once before, that line makes me think that he was fully aware his mother was a Creature generally held to be evil, and that he had hoped/deluded himself that he wasn't going to inherit her less desirable aspects.
He might also have hoped that she had changed, which could conceivably occur a'la Catastrophe Theory, where something suddenly changes state completely after a long period of slow, almost undetectable change.
Assuming she hasn't flipped polarity and become good-with-evil-tendencies, what is curious is that she hasn't instilled Dan with a sense of evil, but she has done a pretty decent job on Alexsi, IMHO (who didn't even have the heart to tell Dan that his mother was still alive by the looks).[/u]
...
Quote from: Turnsky on August 27, 2007, 05:55:44 AM
Quote
Abel's reaction to the fact that Dan is only mildly perturbed should be interesting to see. I've always had a suspicion that Dan's goofiness is mostly just a front and it's starting to look that way.
Maybe it was that book which prompted the question?
well, Dan didn't get to be a good adventurer just by being 'goofy' i suspect that he has a dead serious side, lurking beneath the overall veneer of Dan's outward personality.[/u]
Quote from: Tapewolf on August 27, 2007, 06:03:00 AM
Quote from: Turnsky on August 27, 2007, 05:55:44 AM
well, Dan didn't get to be a good adventurer just by being 'goofy' i suspect that he has a dead serious side, lurking beneath the overall veneer of Dan's outward personality.
Exactly. We've even seen it come up a few times, yet it's surprising how many people think he's simply an idiot.
I wonder if Alexsi and Pyro are still watching?
Quote from: Turnsky on August 27, 2007, 06:08:14 AM
Quote from: Tapewolf on August 27, 2007, 06:03:00 AM
Quote from: Turnsky on August 27, 2007, 05:55:44 AM
well, Dan didn't get to be a good adventurer just by being 'goofy' i suspect that he has a dead serious side, lurking beneath the overall veneer of Dan's outward personality.
Exactly. We've even seen it come up a few times, yet it's surprising how many people think he's simply an idiot.
I wonder if Alexsi and Pyro are still watching?
he's prolly relaxed and aloof when he's not "on the clock" as it were, we all wear masks, Dan's adventuring professionalism is prolly gathering dust somewhere, so to speak.
I reckon that the whole 'cubi deal seems like one big Adventure to Dan, and that might cater to his nature, as well.[/u]
Quote from: Black_angel on August 27, 2007, 12:54:50 PM
Abel go boom.
...
The fact that Dan took this in stride bothers me in ways I can't explain. But I'm not too surprised about Destania, seeing as Cyra-clan has a pain affinity. (Thank you, Dr. Ink.)[/u]
...
That's probably the first time We saw Dan's truly horrified/stunned face.
Though one would ask some simple questions. (they are in there somewhere... I think)
Destania was a good mother to Dan and Alexsi, to the point in teaching them how to handle themselves in combat and such. Alexsi treats Destania as her mother and not a step mother. Destania sees Alexsi as her daughter, as if she gave birth to her (would like to see Alexsi with Cubi wings).
Though what Fi just said brings one question to mind...
How was Edward able to tame such a beast as SAIA's Destania? :mowdizzy
Or was it even Edward that tamed Destania, it could have been Dan...
I'm not defending Destania but I will say this, Amber does know how to make complex characters.
Well, there you go. Dan is just a simple adventurer who won't think the "unthinkable" about his friends/family.
I absolutely LOVE how we all thought that he was being serious and mature and stuff. Can't wait to see how this plays out.
I also can't wait to find out what happened to Jyrass. (I'd nearly forgotten about him :P)
Ah the simple words from the creation of paper and ink could quote the truth that thickheaded former adventurer. I see alot things in the fututre will haunt him more than needed someday. :mwaha
Quote from: Madmann135 on September 03, 2007, 12:00:34 AMI'm not defending Destania but I will say this, Amber does know how to make complex characters.
Perhaps, but for the past 100 or so strips, Dan seems to have been growing less robust.
well, no Jy, but we can definitely calculate the precise moment when all the fuses in Dan's brain just blew. >:3
She was Fi, she WAS. Remember, she left that life behind, and for good reasons. You start to give a damn about the lives of others when one of them happens to have come out of you.
Quote from: Manawolf on September 03, 2007, 02:41:34 AM
She was Fi, she WAS. Remember, she left that life behind, and for good reasons. You start to give a damn about the lives of others when one of them happens to have come out of you.
and for whatever reason, she teamed up with a pink-haired ferret and is planning dragoncide with 'im.
I still don't know why able flipped out and such.
perhaps he has a rather painful memory of 'er. considering Dan's the complete opposite of Dee's aparrent personality.. at least what we've seen, however.
Clan symbol has RETURNED!
Did anyone mention the 'little hands' comic strip to explain Dest's sudden change of viewpoint? Vol 299 for those who want to quote it.
We do have Abel freaking out to the mention of Destania in the main arc and an ominous mention of an unnamed `she' in Abel's arc. And then Abel's Story is coming late this week, allowing us to get more of an idea that Destania is evil before the Abel strip. Coincidence? I'd try to convince Amber to claim that it isn't.
Though I still think that Abel describes Destania as chaotic evil, while the Destania we've seen is more neutral evil.
Quote from: Madmann135 on September 03, 2007, 12:00:34 AMHow was Edward able to tame such a beast as SAIA's Destania?
Theoretical Answer: He didn't, Evil people can fall in love just like everyone else can.
Quote from: Mock AV on September 03, 2007, 03:47:46 AM
Quote from: Madmann135 on September 03, 2007, 12:00:34 AMHow was Edward able to tame such a beast as SAIA's Destania?
Theoretical Answer: He didn't, Evil people can fall in love just like everyone else can.
She prolly eventually ran into an unexpected hitch in her "special incantation ploy"
Quote from: Turnsky on September 03, 2007, 03:55:01 AMShe prolly eventually ran into an unexpected hitch in her "special incantation ploy"
Given what we know of Edward's relationship with dragons and Destania's relationship with dragons, I think there's a good chance that Destania was looking for adventure of a new and different kind when she came across a boy scout who was similarly inclined.
Oh man, that is such a sad strip. I guess he was in denial after all.
Raises the question of whether Destania is currently evil, or whether raising a child changed her. (Not that it seems to have changed Aniz)
Quote from: Turnsky on September 03, 2007, 02:50:36 AM
and for whatever reason, [Destania] teamed up with a pink-haired ferret and is planning dragoncide with 'im.
For all we know the dragons are even worse than 'Cubi :B
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 03, 2007, 04:08:50 AM
Oh man, that is such a sad strip. I guess he was in denial after all.
Raises the question of whether Destania is currently evil, or whether raising a child changed her. (Not that it seems to have changed Aniz)
Dee prolly got the chance to be all 'motherly' might've changed her perspective on things to a degree.
Quote from: Turnsky on September 03, 2007, 02:50:36 AM
and for whatever reason, [Destania] teamed up with a pink-haired ferret and is planning dragoncide with 'im.
Quote
For all we know the dragons are even worse than 'Cubi :B
heh, true.
Heh I say its stone cold irony right now...It takes people who been with Dans family would know the real truth in it
Quote from: Madmann135 on September 03, 2007, 12:00:34 AM
Destania was a good mother to Dan and Alexsi, to the point in teaching them how to handle themselves in combat and such. Alexsi treats Destania as her mother and not a step mother. Destania sees Alexsi as her daughter, as if she gave birth to her (would like to see Alexsi with Cubi wings).
Though what Fi just said brings one question to mind...
How was Edward able to tame such a beast as SAIA's Destania? :mowdizzy
Or was it even Edward that tamed Destania, it could have been Dan...
I think it's quite simple:
Destania knows not to bring work home.
Stepchild or not, Alexsi is family.
SAIA is work.
Sounds like a very practically minded teacher. OFSTED would be proud.
Hey, anybody else hear that faint sound from somewhere off? You know, the one that sounds like a smug voice whispering 'I told you so' from just out of sight?
Yeah, it's me.
Quote from: Turnsky on September 03, 2007, 04:11:23 AM
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 03, 2007, 04:08:50 AM
Raises the question of whether Destania is currently evil, or whether raising a child changed her. (Not that it seems to have changed Aniz)
Dee prolly got the chance to be all 'motherly' might've changed her perspective on things to a degree.
She is planning to commit genocide. No mention of getting the ones that wronged here, but discussing "the end of the dragon race". And I think Pyroduck is a sufficient example to prove that the race in question is not inherently evil... just as the cubi race is not.
Kria Soulstealer may be a good comparison here... sure, she loves her family. She also eats the random pizza delivery boy and tour guide.
Quote from: WhiteFire on September 03, 2007, 05:40:54 AM
Quote from: Turnsky on September 03, 2007, 04:11:23 AM
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 03, 2007, 04:08:50 AM
Raises the question of whether Destania is currently evil, or whether raising a child changed her. (Not that it seems to have changed Aniz)
Dee prolly got the chance to be all 'motherly' might've changed her perspective on things to a degree.
She is planning to commit genocide. No mention of getting the ones that wronged here, but discussing "the end of the dragon race". And I think Pyroduck is a sufficient example to prove that the race in question is not inherently evil... just as the cubi race is not.
Kria Soulstealer may be a good comparison here... sure, she loves her family. She also eats the random pizza delivery boy and tour guide.
i did say "to a degree", besides, Mother, Teacher, Genocidal Maniac.. sounds like anybody's mother, really. >:3
Quote from: Stygian on September 03, 2007, 05:34:53 AM
Hey, anybody else hear that faint sound from somewhere off? You know, the one that sounds like a smug voice whispering 'I told you so' from just out of sight?
Talking of which, I notice Techmaster didn't include
this quote :P
Quote from: Tapewolf on August 22, 2007, 07:32:52 AM
Yes, [Dan would] know that their time at SAIA overlapped, and he knows that she was a teacher. I do not think he knows what subject she taught.
Indeed, since his mother's actions at the Academy and immediately afterwards (preparing to eat Ed's soul, for example) basically represent everything he hates about 'Cubi, discovering that she ran the pain and terror department would have driven him into some kind of anti-'Cubi hysterical fit.
Abel has already told him that 'Cubi a generally given different modules depending on the kind of emotions they're most keyed to, and since Abel isn't showing any signs of being a pain and terror freak, there isn't much reason to assume she'd taught him.
Looks like the fit has begun. Poor Dan :(
Quote from: WhiteFire on September 03, 2007, 05:40:54 AM
She is planning to commit genocide. No mention of getting the ones that wronged here, but discussing "the end of the dragon race". And I think Pyroduck is a sufficient example to prove that the race in question is not inherently evil... just as the cubi race is not.
We don't know that it's genocide. It is believed that the Dragons have their own 'Fae Kingdom', and it has been speculated that Dee is intending to sever the link connecting it to Furrae.
maybe Dan is going to want to go SAIA Just not for the reason his mother hope for >:3
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 03, 2007, 05:49:46 AM
We don't know that it's genocide. It is believed that the Dragons have their own 'Fae Kingdom', and it has been speculated that Dee is intending to sever the link connecting it to Furrae.
blowing up the bridge, eh?.. sounds interesting, and perhaps a little more logical.
Poor Dan.. he just didnt believe Abel.
Wonder what he would think if he found out his mother is still like that and is planning Genocide.
Quote from: Kaerou on September 03, 2007, 06:58:33 AM
Poor Dan.. he just didnt believe Abel.
Wonder what he would think if he found out his mother is still like that and is planning Genocide.
http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_529.php
Or suicidal.
Quote from: WhiteFire on September 03, 2007, 05:40:54 AMQuote from: Turnsky on September 03, 2007, 04:11:23 AMDee prolly got the chance to be all 'motherly' might've changed her perspective on things to a degree.
She is planning to commit genocide.
Dusan Tadic was described as a family man. He also killed two people and tortured and raped dozens of others in the former Yugoslavia.
(I'm omitting the canonical example of the Banality of Evil, to avoid Godwinning this thread)
Quote from: WhiteFire on September 03, 2007, 05:40:54 AMKria Soulstealer may be a good comparison here... sure, she loves her family. She also eats the random pizza delivery boy and tour guide.
This is a good comparison. While Kria gets angry and kills random people, Destania seems far less capricious.
all I have to say is this. If she really is evil, evil never looked SO good. >:3
Quote from: multani82 on September 03, 2007, 08:09:47 AM
all I have to say is this. If she really is evil, evil never looked SO good. >:3
Well, there's Repteal...
Okay, that's a second, in-comic opinion on Destania being evil, not to mention Fa'Lina as a second-hand third. My respect for Fa'Lina just increased a little.
And unless we want to doubt Fi's story for some reason, I think it's notable that Fa'Lina, the same succubus who gave Aaryanna her job in the Pain and Terror division, apparently thought Destania was too cruel. Am I the only one who thinks that's saying something? (Or shall we keep playing the "her morals, her prerogative" card?)
Quote from: Caswin on September 03, 2007, 08:30:18 AM
I think it's notable that Fa'Lina, the same succubus who gave Aaryanna her job in the Pain and Terror division, apparently thought Destania was too cruel.
Yes. That is interesting. Fa'Lina may get the giggles at the thought of decapitating Beings, but she does have
some standards.
It's also worth pointing out that since Fi has been with Fa'Lina for some time she has probably picked up some of her former mistress' attitudes.
This whole thing sounds like some sort of Jerry episode, with adventurer-sons having evil demented parents. We've already got two candidates.
Quote from: Aridas Soulfire on September 03, 2007, 08:55:38 AM
This whole thing sounds like some sort of Jerry episode, with adventurer-sons having evil demented parents. We've already got two candidates.
I don't see P-Ducky as an adventurer. He's more along the lines of a messenger (or covert operations specalist) who's skilled in combat.
Quote from: Madmann135 on September 03, 2007, 09:02:01 AM
I don't see P-Ducky as an adventurer. He's more along the lines of a messenger (or covert operations specalist) who's skilled in combat.
He probably meant Abel and Dan.
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 03, 2007, 09:10:44 AM
Quote from: Madmann135 on September 03, 2007, 09:02:01 AM
I don't see P-Ducky as an adventurer. He's more along the lines of a messenger (or covert operations specalist) who's skilled in combat.
He probably meant Abel and Dan.
Technically Able is not an adventurer's son.
Aniz is his old man (as much as Able would probably want to deny) and Aniz was more along the lines of the 'Adventurer Slaying' department.
Unless May took up the sword and killed an evil entity then Able is not an adventurer's son.
Quote from: Madmann135 on September 03, 2007, 09:18:49 AM
Technically Able is not an adventurer's son.
Aniz is his old man (as much as Able would probably want to deny) and Aniz was more along the lines of the 'Adventurer Slaying' department.
On the other hand, Aniz was known to the town as an adventurer, and he (allegedly) saved it on occasion as part of his role of being Cid.
I'm starting to wonder if one of the points of Abels story is that cubi are able and willing to play "good" for a mortal lifetime if that fits their plans. Makes you wonder if Destania has done that too...
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 03, 2007, 05:49:46 AMLooks like the fit has begun. Poor Dan :(
Indeed. Rough times, learning that one of your parents is an evil monster. :<
Quote from: Stig Hemmer on September 03, 2007, 09:44:18 AM
I'm starting to wonder if one of the points of Abels story is that cubi are able and willing to play "good" for a mortal lifetime if that fits their plans. Makes you wonder if Destania has done that too...
Pain and Terror were Dee's specialties, and Emotional likes, As per her clan's traits, I'm not sure about Abel's however.
Quote from: Turnsky on September 03, 2007, 06:43:49 AM
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 03, 2007, 05:49:46 AM
We don't know that it's genocide. It is believed that the Dragons have their own 'Fae Kingdom', and it has been speculated that Dee is intending to sever the link connecting it to Furrae.
blowing up the bridge, eh?.. sounds interesting, and perhaps a little more logical.
....cannot... resist....
Yesterday I saw the Body of the Bridgekeeper engulfed in flame, and I saw the Bridge created by one-third.
Tomorrow I saw the Soul of the Bridgekeeper reduced to ash, and I saw the Bridge created by two-thirds.
Today, the Mind of the Bridgekeeper shall meet with its destiny, and I shall see the Bridge extend between the realms.
And the many children of the King shall leap and dance and sing praise in His name, for great is His wisdom and His benevolence.
Quote from: Goatmon on September 03, 2007, 09:52:40 AM
Rough times, learning that one of your parents is an evil monster. :<
Curiously this comes as I'm mixing down the final version of 'What Did Daniel Think He Was?' which is about Dan's despair when he discovers
he's a monster. What's the betting he goes off on some kind of fugue about whether he's going to become evil again?
His parents never got to tell him
They left him when he was a child
And when he found he was a demon
That was the last day that he smiled.Quote from: Janus Whitefurr on September 03, 2007, 10:05:59 AM
And the many children of the King shall leap and dance and sing praise in His name, for great is His wisdom and His benevolence.
Fantastic! What the hell is it?
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 03, 2007, 05:49:46 AM
We don't know that it's genocide. It is believed that the Dragons have their own 'Fae Kingdom', and it has been speculated that Dee is intending to sever the link connecting it to Furrae.
Well, two things I've learned reading DMFA so far: first is, we don't know anything that has not been absolutely stated in the comic or by Amber. Second is, speculation in these forums has about a 1% accuracy rate...
I feel I should mention that that little comment was actually sort of a reference to the main character a comic of my own, that I'm currently writing. Namely, Kevin. (My avatar)
I'd go into more detail, but nobody really cares. =P
Quote from: WhiteFire on September 03, 2007, 10:11:04 AM
Well, two things I've learned reading DMFA so far: first is, we don't know anything that has not been absolutely stated in the comic or by Amber. Second is, speculation in these forums has about a 1% accuracy rate...
The 'Dragon Kingdom' is from the Demonology - note that it doesn't say whether this is true, however. It's listed as a rumour.
And I think it's a bit more like 10% in the accuracy stakes :P
To some degree the 'close the link' theory is wishful thinking/hope that it isn't literally genocide.
On the other hand, it is one of the few possible ways I can think of that they could silently sweep Furrae clean of virtually-invulnerable dragons overnight
without anyone knowing. "Half the world will sleep through it" (725)
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 03, 2007, 10:07:09 AM
Quote from: Goatmon on September 03, 2007, 09:52:40 AM
Rough times, learning that one of your parents is an evil monster. :<
Curiously this comes as I'm mixing down the final version of 'What Did Daniel Think He Was?' which is about Dan's despair when he discovers he's a monster.
Quote from: Caswin on August 26, 2007, 09:19:56 AM
Quote from: Tapewolf on August 26, 2007, 04:16:49 AMDan discovers he's a soul-eating monster himself.
DahDahDahdahdah. :V
Dan is not a soul-eating monster. He has the potential to be one, and doubtless there are 'cubi out there who would like him to think he has no choice...
Etc. Sorry, but when you say it like that's what he
is...
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 03, 2007, 10:07:09 AM
Quote from: Janus Whitefurr on September 03, 2007, 10:05:59 AM
And the many children of the King shall leap and dance and sing praise in His name, for great is His wisdom and His benevolence.
Fantastic! What the hell is it?
What he said.
Quote from: Caswin on September 03, 2007, 10:33:20 AM
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 03, 2007, 10:07:09 AM
Fantastic! What the hell is it?
What he said.
The quote is a reference to the fourth and final game of the Chzo Mythos, a set of freeware horror-adventure style games, beginning with "5 Days A Stranger". As I'm a heinous individual who likes trying to hook people on the series, it's downloadable from the official website, here (http://www.fullyramblomatic.com/games.htm).
And now back to the thread, so I don't derail it. *disappear*
*Charline cackles* See? I told you so! Destania is just like ME!! Except I didn't use children and infants for torture. They're much too useful as food ingredients. So tender and tasty, souls so innocent and trusting... such a treat to eat! :veryevil
*Charles erms* Thank goodness I'm already a twisted furvert with a spoiled bitter soul from endless hours in the laboratory inhaling mutagens. :blankstare But look! Fa'lina had pity on the young Beings! I told you all she was nice! Oh Fa'lina, how do I love thee? Let me count the ways...
*Charline begins to feel ill* :I
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 03, 2007, 09:10:44 AM
Quote from: Madmann135 on September 03, 2007, 09:02:01 AM
I don't see P-Ducky as an adventurer. He's more along the lines of a messenger (or covert operations specalist) who's skilled in combat.
He probably meant Abel and Dan.
Quote from: Madmann135 on September 03, 2007, 09:18:49 AM
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 03, 2007, 09:10:44 AM
Quote from: Madmann135 on September 03, 2007, 09:02:01 AM
I don't see P-Ducky as an adventurer. He's more along the lines of a messenger (or covert operations specalist) who's skilled in combat.
He probably meant Abel and Dan.
Technically Able is not an adventurer's son.
Aniz is his old man (as much as Able would probably want to deny) and Aniz was more along the lines of the 'Adventurer Slaying' department.
Unless May took up the sword and killed an evil entity then Able is not an adventurer's son.
I meant that Dan was the adventurer, actually. The adventurer with a crazy parent. Abel isn't an adventurer, but he has a crazy parent, and Jerry Springer shows always stray from the primary subject as long as it's the same in essence. :|
Then again, all shows along those lines do that too.
*Ding Ding!*
All Aboard for the train straight through Denial, just past misery, and all the way to catatonia!..
Quote from: Alondro on September 03, 2007, 11:06:39 AM
*Charline cackles* See? I told you so! Destania is just like ME!! Except I didn't use children and infants for torture. They're much too useful as food ingredients. So tender and tasty, souls so innocent and trusting... such a treat to eat! :veryevil
*Charles erms* Thank goodness I'm already a twisted furvert with a spoiled bitter soul from endless hours in the laboratory inhaling mutagens. :blankstare But look! Fa'lina had pity on the young Beings! I told you all she was nice! Oh Fa'lina, how do I love thee? Let me count the ways...
*Charline begins to feel ill* :I
Meh, a smart demon knows to harness that pure innocence before damaging the flesh. You have any idea what kind of street cred that stuff has in hell? >:3
Quote from: Janus Whitefurr on September 03, 2007, 10:40:19 AM
Quote from: Caswin on September 03, 2007, 10:33:20 AM
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 03, 2007, 10:07:09 AM
Fantastic! What the hell is it?
What he said.
The quote is a reference to the fourth and final game of the Chzo Mythos, a set of freeware horror-adventure style games, beginning with "5 Days A Stranger". As I'm a heinous individual who likes trying to hook people on the series, it's downloadable from the official website, here (http://www.fullyramblomatic.com/games.htm).
And now back to the thread, so I don't derail it. *disappear*
oooo! I thought it sounded familiar. You sure it's not in "5 Days" as well?
speaking of which, 5 Days is a fantastic game. I just can't seem to find the patience to play 6 Days, 7 days, and Trillby's Notes.
Okay, I now officially hate Destiana. I can stomach nearly any horrible practice if I try hard enough, but the second one harms infants or little kids, I consider them unredeemable. Even if she weren't planning genocide, she'd still be a sick, vicious monster.
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 03, 2007, 08:34:16 AMYes. That is interesting. Fa'Lina may get the giggles at the thought of decapitating Beings, but she does have some standards.
It's already been established that Fa'Lina has a thing for kids. She tends to adopt them and wants Pyro to have them. She may have no qualms about ripping a candy striper in two.
Quote from: Stig Hemmer on September 03, 2007, 09:44:18 AMI'm starting to wonder if one of the points of Abels story is that cubi are able and willing to play "good" for a mortal lifetime if that fits their plans. Makes you wonder if Destania has done that too...
I'm not saying it couldn't be right, but how would that fit into her plans?
Dee makes most peoples moms a saint. When it comes some mothers who have willing rage and moments to pluck the souls of younglins in the olden days of lore of SAIA. Ah better send the chickens to peck at Charles head while he plays with the dangerious chemicals..He could aford a good chickens to his fat noggin. >:3
Now it's time for Uncle Joe's rampant speculation hour:
Destania may actually have quit the pain and terror business because she's raised a child and her maternal instincts have kicked in to the point at which she's realised that in her old life she was doing something very nasty. This has already been proposed. There's the problem of why she settled down, and I'm ignoring the 'Final Solution to the Dragon problem' as a separate issue.
What no-one has looked at is why - if raising a child can invoke instincts strong enough to make her stop being a psychopath - has this not happened before in the seven millennia that she has been at SAIA?
I present a possible solution. Cue cackles of laughter from Amber at how off-base this is.
Amber has said that you don't generally have 'Cubi at SAIA until they are adults, i.e. around 25 and mature enough to study reasonably well. However, there is the interesting fact that they remain 25 for the duration of their course, which is of the order of 300 years. You have a thousand or so eternally young students of both genders, many of whom are learning seduction and various other similar subjects. Even if they weren't you'd have them hitting off with each other (e.g. Messafint and Jard). Yet somehow, SAIA seems not to have become - to put it coarsely - a breeding ground.
To me, the obvious answer is that they have some kind of magical forcefield or some other technique to render the occupants of SAIA infertile during their stay. I don't see it being voluntary, although I suppose it's possible.
If we imagine this also affects the teachers, it would explain how Dee can teach rape/fall in love with someone on-campus without getting knocked up and suddenly quitting her job in pain and terror when the baby is born.
This might also explain why Fa'Lina doesn't seem to be trying to enlarge her clan, because she is also affected by the hypothetical forcefield and doesn't want to spend the necessary time away from SAIA (which would break her foresight).
Just my two grebs.
I think Dan mother is going to have to explain a few thing to Dan :mwaha
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 03, 2007, 02:13:36 PM
Now it's time for Uncle Joe's rampant speculation hour:
Just out of curiosity, can I ask why you are putting so much effort into trying to find ways for Destania to have undergone some magical transformation from horrific beast to nice mommy?
Quote from: WhiteFire on September 03, 2007, 03:49:47 PM
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 03, 2007, 02:13:36 PM
Now it's time for Uncle Joe's rampant speculation hour:
Just out of curiosity, can I ask why you are putting so much effort into trying to find ways for Destania to have undergone some magical transformation from horrific beast to nice mommy?
To be honest I'm not sure. The why-no-kids-in-SAIA thing was an idea I was toying with earlier before the revelations about Dee came to light... it was a thought experiment in why SAIA doesn't have a population explosion. The application to the Dee problem didn't occur to me until today.
When it comes down to it, I think the real reason is because Dan isn't going to be able to cope with the fact that his mother is psychotic.
**EDIT**
And yes, I've been on both sides of that argument - 'already knows' and 'it will break him'... todays' strip has put me in the latter camp.
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 03, 2007, 03:56:24 PM
To be honest I'm not sure. The why-no-kids-in-SAIA thing was an idea I was toying with earlier before the revelations about Dee came to light... it was a thought experiment in why SAIA doesn't have a population explosion. The application to the Dee problem didn't occur to me until today.
Could I suggest there that an early course in SAIA might involve birth control, especially for the female students? When your out in the field doing the 'cubi thing, you know, raping and then killing, it might be annoying to get pregnant off of an adventurer. I'm sure there are magical means for it.
As to wanting a child, if you live that long, I'm sure that the biological clock does not go off quite as soon, and that being around other "young" 'cubi may discourage it until you've left the school atmosphere.
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 03, 2007, 03:56:24 PM
When it comes down to it, I think the real reason is because Dan isn't going to be able to cope with the fact that his mother is psychotic.
Who knows, it might be a growth opportunity for him. Or he could become a jerk like Able. He is a great rolemodel for dealing with psychotic parents and all... :)
Quote from: WhiteFire on September 03, 2007, 04:14:54 PM
Could I suggest there that an early course in SAIA might involve birth control, especially for the female students? When your out in the field doing the 'cubi thing, you know, raping and then killing, it might be annoying to get pregnant off of an adventurer. I'm sure there are magical means for it.
I considered it, but I figured a voluntary system wouldn't work too well. 'Cubi seem to be rather impulsive and I'm not sure they'd have the discipline. Also there's the fact that there are only about 30'000 'Cubi in the world. Take a couple of relatively immature 'Cubi in what amounts to a university, get them drunk and you'll have them thinking they're doing their bit trying to save the 'Cubi race :P
Now it might be that you have excessive penalties like in
Quozl by Alan Dean Foster, but that would be counterproductive given that one of Fa'Lina's drives seems to be preserving her race. (And the aliens in
Quozl were trying to solve an
overpopulation problem).
I figured an atomatically-enforced system would be more likely, and it might also explain Fa'Lina's motherhood complex if she's affected by it as well.
QuoteAs to wanting a child, if you live that long, I'm sure that the biological clock does not go off quite as soon, and that being around other "young" 'cubi may discourage it until you've left the school atmosphere.
Dunno about that. In all likelihood they're going to have the same kind of drive as a Being of 25, since 'Cubi are indistinguishable from winged Beings until their headwings kick in. Heck, Dan kept trying to pick people up before he knew what he was.
(Heh... the original concept behind my CJP fanfic was exploring what happens if someone is forcibly taken to SAIA when they already have kids...)
Couldn't help noticing the posing in this strip. Have we ever seen Dan (or any of the other winged characters) looking over/around their wings at someone? Looks to me as if Dan might already suspect Abel wasn't lying, but doesn't want to admit it, to Fi or even to himself. Wish we knew more about that book, and whether he's read any of it yet.
And then there's the quivery-lipped last panel. How is Dan going to react? Angrily deny everything? Have an emotional eruption (comparable to Mount St. Helens)? Run away (maybe to confront Alexsi)? Keel over?
I'm hoping for a mental breakdown myself personally. >:3
One where he decides to become so evil that his mom looks like Mary Poppins compared to him.
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 03, 2007, 02:13:36 PMTo me, the obvious answer is that they have some kind of magical forcefield or some other technique to render the occupants of SAIA infertile during their stay.
Or the universe's largest abortion clinic. No offense, but I'd buy your honeypot about Abel being Dan's father before this one. It has all the hallmarks of ad hoc reasoning.
I dunno, super, It makes sense to me. I can't come up with any other viable alternative.
Quote from: Xeksue on September 03, 2007, 07:36:56 PM
I'm hoping for a mental breakdown myself personally. >:3
One where he decides to become so evil that his mom looks like Mary Poppins compared to him.
I'm, um, afraid I don't see the logic here.
Yikes, poor Dan. I swear he makes the best expressions but really, ita a wonder he isnt in permenant therapy. Although Fi has the best seat in the house. I have to say, I thought Id be mad when things moved away from the Jyrras scene but man, this is some great reading. :3
Quote from: Caswin on September 03, 2007, 08:49:30 PM
I'm, um, afraid I don't see the logic here.
Well think about it. First strike is that he finds out he's actually a cubi. Second strike is him being "enrolled" into SAIA, and he seems to have gotten the idea in his head that they want to turn him into some kind of evil monster. Third strike, his mom turns out to be the root of all evil. I'm expecting him to snap.
this brings up another possibility If Dan's mother Raised him Dan could have wound up like the poor girl from "Pasadena" ( a television series I discovered today, where the mother is one crazy homicidal bitch)
Quote from: Xeksue on September 03, 2007, 10:23:59 PM
Quote from: Caswin on September 03, 2007, 08:49:30 PM
I'm, um, afraid I don't see the logic here.
Well think about it. First strike is that he finds out he's actually a cubi. Second strike is him being "enrolled" into SAIA, and he seems to have gotten the idea in his head that they want to turn him into some kind of evil monster. Third strike, his mom turns out to be the root of all evil. I'm expecting him to snap.
Oh, some type of mental breakdown in the face of all that, I can certainly see (and he's gotten that "idea" in his head for a reason, mind). However, if he
did snap, it would probably be some sort of backlash against the "evil" pressure rather than giving in to it.
"FA'LINA, THERE WILL BE A RECKONING...!"
Either way, his whole outlook and thinking will fundamentally change from what it is now probably. I think he'd be more angry with his mom then Fa'lina if he does go down the "reckoning" path. It's really a matter of which parent he wants to embrace more in ideology, his mother or his father. For a good part of his life he undoubtibly has taken after his father, now that he's finally getting to know his true mother and in such rapid succession to cause doubt about who he really is, he could sway in three ways at this point.
It's possible that Destania is just as evil as before. Also another possibility for the lack of kids is that Cubi have a huge fertility problem regardless of where they are.
The other thing is that barrier methods of contraception are pretty useless when all you have to say is, ``Nope! No entrance to the uterus!'' and it's gone.
According to Fi, Fa'lina and Destania had a fight over using children and infants in the torture class. However, it doesn't say if Fa'lina had any objection to using adults.
Quote from: Naldru on September 04, 2007, 01:33:26 AM
According to Fi, Fa'lina and Destania had a fight over using children and infants in the torture class. However, it doesn't say if Fa'lina had any objection to using adults.
Which pretty-much means "no". I mean, thats to be expected, as I doubt Fa'lina would want Destania using pupils for showing off rape-techniques(though, we really don't know enough about 'Cubi to know if, or how many volunteers there would be in such classes).
Quote from: superluser on September 04, 2007, 12:53:32 AM
The other thing is that barrier methods of contraception are pretty useless when all you have to say is, ``Nope! No entrance to the uterus!'' and it's gone.
So, who says that SAIA doesn't have a spell built in that enforces that?
-RobbieThe1st
Quote from: RobbieThe1st on September 04, 2007, 02:42:36 AMQuote from: superluser on September 04, 2007, 12:53:32 AMThe other thing is that barrier methods of contraception are pretty useless when all you have to say is, ``Nope! No entrance to the uterus!'' and it's gone.
So, who says that SAIA doesn't have a spell built in that enforces that?
It just seems too far out in left field. We know that long term magic use can really screw people up, and I doubt that Fa'Lina would risk that happening to her students. In addition, the faculty might want to have kids, and forcing them to be away for an entire term would not be an optimal solution. In addition, it is quite possible that SAIA has reproductive experiments on a regular basis.
It still seems like an ad hoc solution that would be unlikely to work in the DMFA world.
Quote from: superluser on September 04, 2007, 03:36:55 AMWe know that long term magic use can really screw people up
er, where did you get that idea?
Quote from: Aridas Soulfire on September 04, 2007, 03:40:36 AM
Quote from: superluser on September 04, 2007, 03:36:55 AMWe know that long term magic use can really screw people up
er, where did you get that idea?
http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_776.php
Quote from: superluser on September 04, 2007, 03:36:55 AM
It just seems too far out in left field. We know that long term magic use can really screw people up,
We know that one particular model of amulet may have bugs. Heck, we don't even know if it
is responsible for Lorenda's unusual condition or just something Kria is guilty over. Besides 'Cubi are magical creatures - although that statement could be used to justify either side of the argument.
QuoteIt still seems like an ad hoc solution that would be unlikely to work in the DMFA world.
They use wards all over the place and the lighting is most likely magical too. Having a global spell like that is probably about the same as having a WiFi network on campus.
For that matter you could drug the water - assuming that 'Cubi drink regularly which isn't necessarily a given - but a spell seemed easier and more 'DMFA-like'.
Quote from: superluser on September 04, 2007, 03:36:55 AM
In addition, the faculty might want to have kids, and forcing them to be away for an entire term would not be an optimal solution. In addition, it is quite possible that SAIA has reproductive experiments on a regular basis.
This is true (or is it? Nine months to a year out of 300 years...?) Now they might have some kind of counterspell for that purpose, but that would break the Fa'Lina theory.
Ad-hoc reasoning? More of a lazy way to ensure all your students fall in line. And your staff too, since they're still effectively young.
Tying that theory into Destania was ad-hoc, I'll grant you that. But it is a fact that having children generally changes your outlook considerably and it might - no guarantee - be enough to make Dee change.
Since Whitefire seems to have pegged me as a Dee apologist, I can equally well believe that the entire falling in love with Edward and raising Alexsi/Dan thing is a front. 7000 years can make you a good actor, and Aniz pulled that stunt off spectacularly in Abel's Story. But for Dan's sake I'm hoping there's more to it than that.
Quote from: WhiteFire on September 04, 2007, 04:01:15 AM
Quote from: Aridas Soulfire on September 04, 2007, 03:40:36 AM
Quote from: superluser on September 04, 2007, 03:36:55 AMWe know that long term magic use can really screw people up
er, where did you get that idea?
http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_776.php
As tape said, AND THIS COMIC SAID, that was the one specific thing. I've yet to see a reason to believe otherwise.
Quote from: Aridas Soulfire on September 04, 2007, 04:32:37 AM
Quote from: WhiteFire on September 04, 2007, 04:01:15 AM
Quote from: Aridas Soulfire on September 04, 2007, 03:40:36 AM
Quote from: superluser on September 04, 2007, 03:36:55 AMWe know that long term magic use can really screw people up
er, where did you get that idea?
http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_776.php
As tape said, AND THIS COMIC SAID, that was the one specific thing. I've yet to see a reason to believe otherwise.
You only asked where the idea came from, that was my best guess. You didn't ask if the idea was provably correct or not. :)
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 04, 2007, 04:21:58 AM
Since Whitefire seems to have pegged me as a Dee apologist, ...
I don't think I would go quite so far as to describe you that way. I just thought the logic was getting rather oddly watered down from what I had seen of you in the past, so I was curious as to why.
Your welcome to label yourself that way though. :)
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 04, 2007, 04:21:58 AMWe know that one particular model of amulet may have bugs.
It would still seem to be a consideration, and one that would likely result in not using magical solutions, as a matter of parsimony.
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 04, 2007, 04:21:58 AMThis is true (or is it? Nine months to a year out of 300 years...?) Now they might have some kind of counterspell for that purpose, but that would break the Fa'Lina theory.
Ad-hoc reasoning? More of a lazy way to ensure all your students fall in line. And your staff too, since they're still effectively young.
Now we're getting into some serious Occam's Razor territory. This is like ancient astronomers declaring that the Earth is the center of the universe, and that everything revolves around it. How to explain the fact that the planets seem to reverse direction? Add another ad hoc rule that they rotate in epicycles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicycle).
I just think that the concept that Fa'Lina has cast some sort of contraceptive spell over all of SAIA could answer one question at the cost of raising hundreds of others with highly improbable solutions. This solution just doesn't seem to fit Amber's writing style.
Quote from: superluser on September 04, 2007, 05:37:19 AM
I just think that the concept that Fa'Lina has cast some sort of contraceptive spell over all of SAIA could answer one question at the cost of raising hundreds of others with highly improbable solutions. This solution just doesn't seem to fit Amber's writing style.
There is some truth in that, but leaving aside the Destania thing, there must be some way of ensuring that SAIA isn't overflowing with 'Cubi, and although I'll admit it has flaws magic seemed to me to be the most elegant solution.
To be honest I always figured that the 'dark matter' thing was the Big Bang's version of epicycles, but for heaven's sake, don't let this devolve into a cosmology thread :B
Well, first lets look over what we *do* know:
1. 'Cubi can have children together(Or do we know this? Dan has one Being parent, and so does Abel. Aaryanna and Fa'lina we do not know about. )
2. 'Cubi at SAIA are expected, at-least generally, to 'do it' with each other, which is why the beds are there(as Abel basically explained).
3. Long term magic *may* have effects in some cases, as shown by Kria.
I see two possible options here:
A. Magic.
Some sort of school-tied spell, which affects 'Cubi only in the school. It must not cause effects.
Perhaps you have a spell which is inactive most of the time, and only when needed it activates, thus it would only be on for a few hours at most, and so you wouldn't have long-term spell effects.
or B.
Perhaps 'Cubi cannot reproduce amongst themselves?
This would mean that 'Cubi could do whatever they want with each other with no fear of pregnancy, and only when being with a Being(or other compatible species), then the 'Cubi would have offspring.
This would seem to fit. What do you guys think?
-RobbieThe1st
Quote from: RobbieThe1st on September 04, 2007, 07:39:43 AM
or B.
Perhaps 'Cubi cannot reproduce amongst themselves?
This would mean that 'Cubi could do whatever they want with each other with no fear of pregnancy, and only when being with a Being(or other compatible species), then the 'Cubi would have offspring.
It's an interesting idea and I had considered that, but Aary (for example) was brought up among 'Cubi, and that seems to be the norm - Dan, Abel and a few others being exceptions.
If the only way 'Cubi could reproduce was with a Being, that would mean that every 'Cubi would have a Being parent, and you'd see a lot more Being sympathisers among them than there seem to be.
/digs
Quotehttp://nice.llearch.net/dmfa_forum2896.htm#ref24
Amber Panyko on 01-21-2006 01:23 AM:
[...] I will also say that Fa'Lina was born to two cubi parents.
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 04, 2007, 07:53:18 AM
Quote from: RobbieThe1st on September 04, 2007, 07:39:43 AM
or B.
Perhaps 'Cubi cannot reproduce amongst themselves?
This would mean that 'Cubi could do whatever they want with each other with no fear of pregnancy, and only when being with a Being(or other compatible species), then the 'Cubi would have offspring.
It's an interesting idea and I had considered that, but Aary (for example) was brought up among 'Cubi, and that seems to be the norm - Dan, Abel and a few others being exceptions.
If the only way 'Cubi could reproduce was with a Being, that would mean that every 'Cubi would have a Being parent, and you'd see a lot more Being sympathisers among them than there seem to be.
Well, Edward knew Destinia was a 'Cubi, and its never been said that Aary has two 'Cubi parents, and for all we know, her mother and father were in a 'Cubi populated area.
I am taking the fact that there is no such information in the cast page, as a good reason to think the idea through. Unlike the other theory, this has more of an Amber feel to it...
With your second point, theres only 30,000 of them compared to how many million Beings?
Also, the problem with a lot of these theories is the lack of evidence one way or another, we have only seen a handful of characters, and that really isn't good enough evidence to base a theory on.
Quote from: Kazwuff on September 04, 2007, 07:53:52 AM
/digs
Quotehttp://nice.llearch.net/dmfa_forum2896.htm#ref24
Amber Panyko on 01-21-2006 01:23 AM:
[...] I will also say that Fa'Lina was born to two cubi parents.
This does present an problem with my theory, although it could, like clan-creation, be a matter of power.
edit:
Yes I am grasping at straws, but aren't we all?
-RobbieThe1st
Quote from: RobbieThe1st on September 04, 2007, 08:10:21 AM
With your second point, theres only 30,000 of them compared to how many million Beings?
Also, the problem with a lot of these theories is the lack of evidence one way or another, we have only seen a handful of characters, and that really isn't good enough evidence to base a theory on.
True. I don't know how many million Beings there are, Amber hasn't said, although it would be interesting to know. To be frank this whole 'Cubi reproduction thing has dragged on longer than I expected - it's in danger of changing the thread topic which wasn't my intention, so personally I'm going to call it quits, I think, unless one of the mods wants to spool it off into its own thread.
Quote from: SpottedKitty on September 03, 2007, 07:21:39 PM
And then there's the quivery-lipped last panel. How is Dan going to react? Angrily deny everything? Have an emotional eruption (comparable to Mount St. Helens)? Run away (maybe to confront Alexsi)? Keel over?
Indeed, an "Alexsi-why-didn't-you-tell-me-that-Mom-is-a-psycho" conversation would be quite interesting to see, although I'm not sure Dan is really in the appropriate frame of mind to pull that off.
To be honest I think a breakdown is more likely. That then raises the question of how Abel is going to react if he finds that Dan has snapped (again) since ultimately he revealed it even though he knew it would not be fun for Dan. Can you say 'guilt trip'?
Meh, all the speculation about why the Cubi aren't humping constantly in the school is pointless. It's as simple as Amber not wanting to have to change the rating on her comic to include all that. Cuz once you open that can of worms, there's no going back!
Next thing you know the comic ends up being constantly featured on fchan. :P
Alondro speaks the truth.
besides, i'm not sure any official source ANYWHERE has said that cubi are sex maniacs.
You know, I'm not all that surprised about Destania, what surprised me more is that Fa'lina seems to be a much more benevolent person than I had thought.
Quote from: Kazwuff on September 04, 2007, 07:53:52 AM
/digs
Quotehttp://nice.llearch.net/dmfa_forum2896.htm#ref24
Amber Panyko on 01-21-2006 01:23 AM:
[...] I will also say that Fa'Lina was born to two cubi parents.
You just shot one of my favorite pet theories squarely in the head. :cry
Quote from: Aridas Soulfire on September 04, 2007, 10:37:26 AM
besides, i'm not sure any official source ANYWHERE has said that cubi are sex maniacs.
*Charline quotes as an official source!* We are. >:3
Quote from: Alondro on September 04, 2007, 12:43:26 PM
Quote from: Aridas Soulfire on September 04, 2007, 10:37:26 AM
besides, i'm not sure any official source ANYWHERE has said that cubi are sex maniacs.
*Charline quotes as an official source!* We are. >:3
At the risk of prolonging that debate, it doesn't really matter whether they are sex maniacs or not in the conventional (Being/human) sense - the mere fact that there are lots of them in one place over a span of 300 years apiece is going to skew the numbers heavily in their favour compared to a more normal setting.
Quote from: WhiteFire on September 04, 2007, 11:55:28 AM
You just shot one of my favorite pet theories squarely in the head. :cry
There there, I'll buy you a new one...
Quote from: Alondro on September 04, 2007, 12:43:26 PM
Quote from: Aridas Soulfire on September 04, 2007, 10:37:26 AM
besides, i'm not sure any official source ANYWHERE has said that cubi are sex maniacs.
*Charline quotes as an official source!* We are. >:3
Dont bring me in this! :U
I doubt Amber has thought about the whole birth control problem. I wouldn't have were I the author, and if I were to read this topic after not thinking about it, I'd probably just say, "$%#@! Forget it, let them theorize!" ...or something along those lines.
I dunno, maybe Fa'lina had all of them experience a period of being pregnant at the beginning of their term, just to teach them that it's tough and they shouldnt do it?
Blargh, no idea, must go now, laugh at my stupid idea. :cry
Quote from: Sajoli on September 04, 2007, 01:51:34 PMI dunno, maybe Fa'lina had all of them experience a period of being pregnant at the beginning of their term, just to teach them that it's tough and they shouldnt do it?
Flour babies. We know how well they work.
Quote from: superluser on September 04, 2007, 02:15:37 PM
Quote from: Sajoli on September 04, 2007, 01:51:34 PMI dunno, maybe Fa'lina had all of them experience a period of being pregnant at the beginning of their term, just to teach them that it's tough and they shouldnt do it?
Flour babies. We know how well they work.
You just reinforced my desire to go make chocolate-chip gingerbread cookies, I hope you know.
Maybe I should go ahead and do it...
[addendum]I can smell them already, and I haven't even entered the kitchen![/addendum]
Quote from: Xeksue on September 03, 2007, 11:40:16 PMI think he'd be more angry with his mom then Fa'lina if he does go down the "reckoning" path.
Honestly? I just got that from the
Silver Surfer cartoon. :U
There is no all-field magic that prevents a Cubi from getting pregnant at SAIA. (While there is types of magical contraceptives, they are up to the individuals to place on themselves) However there is an auto-expulsion policy that is zero tolerance enforced.
Quote from: Amber Williams on September 04, 2007, 02:45:30 PM
There is no all-field magic that prevents a Cubi from getting pregnant at SAIA. (While there is types of magical contraceptives, they are up to the individuals to place on themselves) However there is an auto-expulsion policy that is zero tolerance enforced.
Would explain SOME of the theories apon mine,Tapes and Charles end of stuff...
...So that's why he took it in stride.
I think he needs a hug. From someone non-evil.
Quote from: Amber Williams on September 04, 2007, 02:45:30 PM
There is no all-field magic that prevents a Cubi from getting pregnant at SAIA. (While there is types of magical contraceptives, they are up to the individuals to place on themselves) However there is an auto-expulsion policy that is zero tolerance enforced.
Cool. Thanks for sorting that out, now maybe we can get back to discussing the strip itself again >:3
Quote from: Black_angel on September 04, 2007, 03:14:21 PM
I think he needs a hug. From someone non-evil.
Definitely. I don't know about anyone else, but personally I think this is one of the most gut-wrenching strips I've seen in the main DMFA series.
well is not EVERYDAY your told your mother was so evil that even OTHER cubi objected to her methods. Yeah he's going to need some MAJOR therapy for this hehe >:3
Quote from: multani82 on September 04, 2007, 03:23:31 PM
well is not EVERYDAY your told your mother was so evil that even OTHER cubi objected to her methods. Yeah he's going to need some MAJOR therapy for this hehe >:3
Sounds like a job for Delna. :)
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 04, 2007, 07:53:18 AM
Quote from: RobbieThe1st on September 04, 2007, 07:39:43 AM
or B.
Perhaps 'Cubi cannot reproduce amongst themselves?
This would mean that 'Cubi could do whatever they want with each other with no fear of pregnancy, and only when being with a Being(or other compatible species), then the 'Cubi would have offspring.
It's an interesting idea and I had considered that, but Aary (for example) was brought up among 'Cubi, and that seems to be the norm - Dan, Abel and a few others being exceptions.
If the only way 'Cubi could reproduce was with a Being, that would mean that every 'Cubi would have a Being parent, and you'd see a lot more Being sympathisers among them than there seem to be.
You'd think so. It's hard to say. But then again, how many Cubi have we really seen in much light? We have Dan, Abel, Destania, Fa'Lina, Arryania (SP?), Aniz... who else is there that we've really seen?
Out of that list, 2/6 (or 1/3) seem to be among the type that aren't fond of slaughtering the innocent. That's a significant fraction.
Quote from: Goatmon on September 04, 2007, 04:05:26 PMYou'd think so. It's hard to say. But then again, how many Cubi have we really seen in much light? We have Dan, Abel, Destania, Fa'Lina, Arryania (SP?), Aniz... who else is there that we've really seen?
Out of that list, 2/6 (or 1/3) seem to be among the type that aren't fond of slaughtering the innocent. That's a significant fraction.
Good point. I think it's partially a matter of the overall reputation of 'cubi (in this universe as well as most others), SAIA, y'know, having classes devoted to the stuff, and Abel's admission that most 'cubi are "jerks" (by which I'd guess he means evil and so forth).
Well, that, and on the flip side, two thirds of the 'cubi you listed
aren't exactly hesitant to slaughter the innocent. Not an appealing fraction.
Quote from: Goatmon on September 04, 2007, 04:05:26 PMOut of that list, 2/6 (or 1/3) seem to be among the type that aren't fond of slaughtering the innocent. That's a significant fraction.
And it's not just cubi... look at Lorenda, who *does* still eat beings but only 'bad' ones. The times, they are a'changin'. :B
Am I the only one, incidentally, that seems to find it odd that (near as I can make out) Fa'lina is fine with consuming souls, but draws the line at torturing kids?
What I mean is this: In a world in which eternal souls/afterlives/etc demonstratably exist, I would imagine the destruction of a soul to be a far greater evil than, well, most anything else.
EDIT: And yeah, Dan's expresion is definately a "my entire world is ending" thing.
Okay wiki wiku freaks...Lets get this uploaded now..Where behind updates!
Quote from: Caswin on September 04, 2007, 04:46:39 PM
Quote from: Goatmon on September 04, 2007, 04:05:26 PMYou'd think so. It's hard to say. But then again, how many Cubi have we really seen in much light? We have Dan, Abel, Destania, Fa'Lina, Arryania (SP?), Aniz... who else is there that we've really seen?
Out of that list, 2/6 (or 1/3) seem to be among the type that aren't fond of slaughtering the innocent. That's a significant fraction.
Good point. I think it's partially a matter of the overall reputation of 'cubi (in this universe as well as most others), SAIA, y'know, having classes devoted to the stuff, and Abel's admission that most 'cubi are "jerks" (by which I'd guess he means evil and so forth).
Well, that, and on the flip side, two thirds of the 'cubi you listed aren't exactly hesitant to slaughter the innocent. Not an appealing fraction.
Well, they DO feed off of mortals. And the ones that feed off of energies specific to human suffering really don't have many options. When you have the power to do something, and the consequences are insignificant in the long run, and you have centuries of time to come to terms with this, it's not surprising that many will decide to take the less noble route.
totally off-topic, but Goatmon, your sig image is positively hypnotic. Where'd you get it?
Isn't it though?
It's from 0r0ch1's DA. (http://0r0ch1.deviantart.com/) I've recently become a huge fan of his stuff. :3
(Just scroll down his front page)
Quote from: Amber Williams on September 04, 2007, 02:45:30 PM
There is no all-field magic that prevents a Cubi from getting pregnant at SAIA. (While there is types of magical contraceptives, they are up to the individuals to place on themselves) However there is an auto-expulsion policy that is zero tolerance enforced.
Ah.. so the options are to wrap it up, keep it in your pants, or get the **** out of the academy?
Quote from: Goatmon on September 04, 2007, 05:24:36 PM
Quote from: Caswin on September 04, 2007, 04:46:39 PM
Quote from: Goatmon on September 04, 2007, 04:05:26 PMYou'd think so. It's hard to say. But then again, how many Cubi have we really seen in much light? We have Dan, Abel, Destania, Fa'Lina, Arryania (SP?), Aniz... who else is there that we've really seen?
Out of that list, 2/6 (or 1/3) seem to be among the type that aren't fond of slaughtering the innocent. That's a significant fraction.
Good point. I think it's partially a matter of the overall reputation of 'cubi (in this universe as well as most others), SAIA, y'know, having classes devoted to the stuff, and Abel's admission that most 'cubi are "jerks" (by which I'd guess he means evil and so forth).
Well, that, and on the flip side, two thirds of the 'cubi you listed aren't exactly hesitant to slaughter the innocent. Not an appealing fraction.
Well, they DO feed off of mortals. And the ones that feed off of energies specific to human suffering really don't have many options. When you have the power to do something, and the consequences are insignificant in the long run, and you have centuries of time to come to terms with this, it's not surprising that many will decide to take the less noble route.
First, to nitpick, last I checked, 'cubi were mortal. Very long-lived, but mortal.
Second, there have been no confirmed reports (not that I know of) of 'cubi actually being limited to any one emotion. At best, it might have a bit more punch, but it's most directly comparable to your favorite food. They do have options, and plenty of them.
In Aaryanna's Livejournal, I'm pretty sure she mentions Cubi mating with each other. She writes about what happens when two from different clans fall in love. (NO! NOT THE DIAGRAMS! GYAAAAAAAAAH PUT IT AWAY!!!)
Iunno. :<
Oooooo, nothing like finding out that your mother was once the pinnacle of all evil at the Cubi Academy! That must have hurt, ya think?
Quote from: Goatmon on September 04, 2007, 05:38:21 PM
Ah.. so the options are to wrap it up, keep it in your pants, or get the f*** out of the academy?
Goaty....PG board....
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on September 04, 2007, 08:40:18 PM
Quote from: Goatmon on September 04, 2007, 05:38:21 PM
Ah.. so the options are to wrap it up, keep it in your pants, or get the f*** out of the academy?
Goaty....PG board....
That's the toned down Goatmon. =P
You know, we have blood EVERYWHERE in the last couple of AS pages, but heaven forbid anyone say a naughty word on the forum!
I'll be a tad more careful in the future. :rolleyes
That's because AS, and all related threads, are PG-13, or NC-14, whichever you prefer. Besides, if I didn't say it, the admins would(edit of your post). They've done it before, believe me.
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on September 04, 2007, 09:01:36 PMBlah blah blah
Yes, yes, yes. I know. I have moments now and then when I go a millimeter beyond the boundaries of the rules. To err is human and all.
I edited the OP. Move along. =P
Hey now. PG means Parent Guidance, not "everything is super-kid friendly"
If people want to drop the F-bomb rarely as a means to add emphasis to what they are saying, then by all means. The only issue is when people feel it's their right to litter 3/5th of their sentences and posts with swearing.
And to final note:
Quote from: Psy-Kosh on September 04, 2007, 05:21:11 PM
Am I the only one, incidentally, that seems to find it odd that (near as I can make out) Fa'lina is fine with consuming souls, but draws the line at torturing kids?
Well to be fair. Odds are Destania would have wanted to consume the kids/infants souls as well. Waste not, want not. :3
I know, but llearch may have other ideas. Back in the thread where Aniz first revealed himself, there were seveneen, count 'em, seventeen! delurks, and I commented about it. With an F-bomb. I was censored and chastised by llearch. I'm not complaining, in retrospect, I was indeed the one in error; I shouldn't have slipped like that. The "punishment", if you can even call it that, wasn't that bad though, and I learned my lesson; there are little ones on this particular board. If I was llearch, I might've done the same thing. I'm just helping another person rectify his own mistake before someone else does it for him. I know how annoying that can be.
Appreciate the comment, Amber. I'm glad it's no big deal to throw a swear around once in a while. I tend to avoid it for the most part around here anyway, as I try to steer my behavior towards the people I'm around as I go from forum to forum.
Generally the "It's okay, but don't overdo it" rule seems to work well, for the most part. Well, at least on the webcomic boards. (Besides the Penny Arcade one; Those people are freaking nuts)
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on September 04, 2007, 09:11:47 PM
I know, but llearch may have other ideas.
If Ilearch and myself disagree about something, then we will handle it with each other. However, you would be better off remembering there is a rule against playing forum-cop to other members. If you seriously want to forwarn other members from making what you feel is a mistake, I suggest you PM them instead.
I shall remember that. Thank you, Amber.
Quote from: techmaster-glitch on September 04, 2007, 10:56:27 PM
I shall remember that. Thank you, Amber.
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d156/HuskieBoi666/future.png)
Quote from: Amber Williams on September 04, 2007, 09:06:23 PM
Well to be fair. Odds are Destania would have wanted to consume the kids/infants souls as well. Waste not, want not. :3
Ugh. I figured Dee must have eaten a few to make 7000, but that really is sounding bad. Arguably worse than genocide. Damn good job no-one has mentioned to Dan that she's into soul-murder - I can easily see him trying to kill himself to try and make his line extinct.
*Charline eats the world!* Om nom nom... Ack! I got Norway stuck between my teeth! The fijords are pointy! :< The Earth is all hot and metal-tasting inside! Bleah. Souls are much tastier and softer. And the screams from within as you absorb their energy and destroy their very essence is so satisfying. Knowing that the unworthy beings you consume will never have a chance in the afterlife because you've completely obliterated them is a joy only we evil cubi shall know! >:3
Meh, eating the planet just doesn't have the same thrill. The scale is just too big to really enjoy it. :P
*Charles paraphrases the Bible* "Fear not them who can destroy the body, but them that can destroy the soul." Now I know what that REALLY meant! :U
Ah... Dee v Dan in the making?
Quote from: Sajoli on September 04, 2007, 06:14:27 PM
In Aaryanna's Livejournal, I'm pretty sure she mentions Cubi mating with each other. She writes about what happens when two from different clans fall in love. (NO! NOT THE DIAGRAMS! GYAAAAAAAAAH PUT IT AWAY!!!)
Iunno. :<
?
I just looked over(and saved) the entire journal, and don't see anything like that.
For anyone who is wondering, the address is: http://aary-kitty.livejournal.com/
(which, it looks like, is all Amber's doing, so whats there is probably 50% correct)
Also, to Amber or anyone else who can help me, I noticed that
http://www.missmab.com/graphics/A1.jpg
http://www.missmab.com/graphics/A2.jpg
http://www.missmab.com/graphics/A3.jpg
http://www.missmab.com/graphics/A4.jpg
http://www.missmab.com/graphics/A5.jpg
are all missing. If anyone has a copy, I would love to see these images.
-RobbieThe1st
Quote from: RobbieThe1st on September 05, 2007, 04:06:04 AM
I just looked over(and saved) the entire journal, and don't see anything like that.
For anyone who is wondering, the address is: http://aary-kitty.livejournal.com/
(which, it looks like, is all Amber's doing, so whats there is probably 50% correct)
Amber didn't write the journal - as far as I know - but since Aary wrote a few things there which were proved correct, I'd say that Amber told her a lot of interesting secrets :P
QuoteAlso, to Amber or anyone else who can help me, I noticed that
[some images]
are all missing. If anyone has a copy, I would love to see these images.
What are they supposed to be? I might have copies at home...
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 05, 2007, 04:11:09 AM
Quote from: RobbieThe1st on September 05, 2007, 04:06:04 AM
I just looked over(and saved) the entire journal, and don't see anything like that.
For anyone who is wondering, the address is: http://aary-kitty.livejournal.com/
(which, it looks like, is all Amber's doing, so whats there is probably 50% correct)
Amber didn't write the journal - as far as I know - but since Aary wrote a few things there which were proved correct, I'd say that Amber told her a lot of interesting secrets :P
QuoteAlso, to Amber or anyone else who can help me, I noticed that
[some images]
are all missing. If anyone has a copy, I would love to see these images.
What are they supposed to be? I might have copies at home...
Well, I found the images on that blog, second page of posts.
At-least with that post, Amber obviously did quite a bit, including the graphics(the graphics are, obviously, hosted on missmab.com).
-RobbieThe1st
Quote from: King Of Hearts on September 05, 2007, 04:01:21 AM
Ah... Dee v Dan in the making?
Too predictable, I think. (Or does that just mean... eh, let's not go there)
On the topic of soul-eating, it came up during my brief stint in the SAIA RP. I think it was Azlan who offered up a description of the process: in essence, slurping up the soul's energy and becoming stronger for it, but leaving something (not necessarily for want of trying) to keep going.
On the other hand, for all the enthusiastic let's-play-as-'cubi-in-SAIA players, there seemed to be quite a bit of discomfort over the subject in general, leading to things like the demonstration dummy/"victim" being a heartless mass murderer and so forth - which, I doubt, is standard SAIA procedure. So maybe it was just keeping in that (I'm tempted to say 'cubi lite... and yep, I said it) tone of things. I dunno.
There was a SAIA RP? I'd like to read that. Linky, please?
I believe it's somewhere on the nice forum that's archived over at nice.llearch.net
There's a search engine on there to help locate it...
Quote from: Caswin on September 05, 2007, 10:41:45 PM
On the topic of soul-eating, it came up during my brief stint in the SAIA RP. I think it was Azlan who offered up a description of the process: in essence, slurping up the soul's energy and becoming stronger for it, but leaving something (not necessarily for want of trying) to keep going.
Someone also proposed the theory that it's more a case of trapping their soul within yours to augment your power rather than destroying it, but in both cases I have the sinking feeling that it's wishful thinking :<
QuoteOn the other hand, for all the enthusiastic let's-play-as-'cubi-in-SAIA players, there seemed to be quite a bit of discomfort over the subject in general, leading to things like the demonstration dummy/"victim" being a heartless mass murderer and so forth - which, I doubt, is standard SAIA procedure.
I can imagine. Keaton seems to be the only person easy enough with the idea of soul-eating to create a character who actually enjoys it. I've always found the idea repellent, so while my character has done many highly questionable things from a Being point of view - up to and including stealing souls - devouring them completely is where I draw the line.
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 06, 2007, 06:07:51 AMso while my character has done many highly questionable things from a Being point of view - up to and including stealing souls - devouring them completely is where I draw the line.
That sounds a bit like hunting an animal and not making use of everything you get out of it. Wasteful and wrong :/
Quote from: Aridas Soulfire on September 06, 2007, 08:10:00 AM
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 06, 2007, 06:07:51 AMso while my character has done many highly questionable things from a Being point of view - up to and including stealing souls - devouring them completely is where I draw the line.
That sounds a bit like hunting an animal and not making use of everything you get out of it. Wasteful and wrong :/
Or like catching a fish, weighing it and quickly throwing it back in the river before it drowns. Jakob was brought up to believe that life is sacred.
Since you ask:
"...and if the short life of a Being is sacred, then robbing someone, anyone of their afterlife is surely a crime far, far more heinous than any mere murder. I do not believe I have the right to take such an action."
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 06, 2007, 06:07:51 AM
I can imagine. Keaton seems to be the only person easy enough with the idea of soul-eating to create a character who actually enjoys it. I've always found the idea repellent, so while my character has done many highly questionable things from a Being point of view - up to and including stealing souls - devouring them completely is where I draw the line.
*Charline smirks evily, an anonymous victim in her clutches* How can you have forgotten me, my dear? I love devouring the souls of my prey! I don't care one bit that they are utterly erased from existance. If there souls were strong enough to get away, then they'd be worthy! As it stands, they are easy to capture and absorb, thus they are inferior life forms and useful only as energy to fuel my increasing power! Silly beings often feel pity for lesser animals that they eat, but what about plants? Aren't they alive too? Face it, for one thing to live, many other things must die. The lesser feed the greater. And we Cubi are the greatest of all... *grumbles*... other than the Fae, but I'll deal with them in time. I shall not rest until the Cubi race is exaulted beyond all others! And I shall ascend to the greatest of heights as supreme goddess! :mwaha :mwaha :mwaha
*Charles erms* You just stepped on a caterpillar.
*Charline eeks!* Oh noes! Now it can't be a pretty butterfly! :<
Quote from: Alondro on September 06, 2007, 10:42:03 AM
*Charline smirks evily, an anonymous victim in her clutches* How can you have forgotten me, my dear?
I don't know. But rest assured as soon as I saw your preparing to post I realised there would be a reckoning... :B
QuoteSilly beings often feel pity for lesser animals that they eat, but what about plants? Aren't they alive too? Face it, for one thing to live, many other things must die.
Which is why 'Cubi feed on emotions (he says, while realising that baiting Charline is probably not a good idea)
*Charline immediately goes out and devours the souls of an entire town, painting the word "Knives" in blood on the town's central fountain* :veryevil
It's a lot easier to deal with the whole mess of the morality of eating souls when you decide that your DMFA race is not incubus.(and I'd make a really lousy succubus, considering my dangly bits.) My character, should he ever emerge from the aether of nonexistence, wouldn't have to worry about the morality of denying someone their afterlife from the predatory perspective, only from the view of potential prey.
I just consider anyone who gets their soul devoured equivalent to an "extra" in a movie. They're filler characters, nobody's going to miss them if they get eaten, kinda like the pizza delivery boy Kria ate.
Quote from: Raist on September 06, 2007, 11:34:43 AM
It's a lot easier to deal with the whole mess of the morality of eating souls when you decide that your DMFA race is not incubus.
I think you're probably on the wrong track here. Soul-eating and trapping is apparently a learned ability that 'Cubi seem to excel at. Since it appears to be just a matter of casting the right spells, I bet you anything other Creatures can do it too if they know how. Remember Lorenda's surname...?
**EDIT**
...and that Dark Pegasus was going to do something of the kind with Mab's soul to summon the Dark God. That said, Fae don't seem to have souls in the quite same sense as other races.
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 06, 2007, 11:39:57 AM
Quote from: Raist on September 06, 2007, 11:34:43 AM
It's a lot easier to deal with the whole mess of the morality of eating souls when you decide that your DMFA race is not incubus.
I think you're probably on the wrong track here. Soul-eating and trapping is apparently a learned ability that 'Cubi seem to excel at. Since it appears to be just a matter of casting the right spells, I bet you anything other Creatures can do it too if they know how. Remember Lorenda's surname...?
**EDIT**
...and that Dark Pegasus was going to do something of the kind with Mab's soul to summon the Dark God. That said, Fae don't seem to have souls in the quite same sense as other races.
Still dealing with Demons, who are sometimes theorized to be half of the Cubi genome.(the other half being Angels). Kria is a demon-mare, Lorenda is half-demon, and DP was a demon-horse.
Now granted, you've probably got more research invested in this than me, so your points are more valid than any I might make for now, but I still think soul devouring tends to be an inherent ability, as opposed to a trained one, save for very powerful magic.
Quote from: Raist on September 06, 2007, 11:46:08 AM
Now granted, you've probably got more research invested in this than me, so your points are more valid than any I might make for now, but I still think soul devouring tends to be an inherent ability, as opposed to a trained one, save for very powerful magic.
To be honest, I don't know. Amber seemed to be saying otherwise, but it was an off-the-cuff comment and I could be reading too much into it myself...
**EDIT**
Got it. Make of this what you will:
"As such, emotional absorbing would be considered a natural trait. Soul-stealing would be considered a magical ability."
http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php?topic=746.msg18019#msg18019
Quote from: Raist on September 06, 2007, 11:34:43 AMI just consider anyone who gets their soul devoured equivalent to an "extra" in a movie. They're filler characters, nobody's going to miss them if they get eaten, kinda like the pizza delivery boy Kria ate.
So... what if they're
not an extra?
(And, believe it or not, I actually hold that and the other 20+ faceless murders/dinners against Kria. Someone really ought to stop her, but I say that about a lot of characters...)
Quote from: Tapewolf on September 06, 2007, 11:51:47 AM
Got it. Make of this what you will:
"As such, emotional absorbing would be considered a natural trait. Soul-stealing would be considered a magical ability."
soul stealing as a magic ability (http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php?topic=746.msg18019#msg18019)
Ah, I thought I was missing something.
seems only Cubi and Demons really occupy themselves with the theft and consumption of souls, though, and I identify with neither, I maintain my third-party/prey status.
Quote from: Caswin on September 06, 2007, 01:56:07 PM
(And, believe it or not, I actually hold that and the other 20+ faceless murders/dinners against Kria. Someone really ought to stop her, but I say that about a lot of characters...)
do note that Kria is considered
less evil than Moira Gianna, whatever that may mean. Seems to me, Moira
is was the only thing standing between Jyyras and that pizza-delivery boy, so Beings can certainly
have power sufficient to make Creatures edgy.
Quote from: Raist on September 06, 2007, 02:33:03 PM
do note that Kria is considered less evil than Moira Gianna, whatever that may mean. Seems to me, Moira is was the only thing standing between Jyyras and that pizza-delivery boy, so Beings can certainly have power sufficient to make Creatures edgy.
It's funny for a being's first reaction to the news of the murder of Kria's X was "you should have sued him".
Of course, this all begs the question: are we applying the wrong model of evil to the comic? Our morals are obviously somewhat different than the ones in the world the comic is in, and the morals in that world are obviously in flux right now as the Beings gain more power in the world.