Avatar: A Bad Thread

[Mao]

[thegayhare]

I apoligise for the fact that this has nothing to do with the thread but, reading Mao and Damaris last few resposnse has me giggling like a fool...

[Darkmoon]

It's cool. I'm down with it.

[Mao]

Don't worry Darkmoon,   I <3 you too.

[Turnsky]

Don't worry Darkmoon,   I <3 you too.

get a room you lot. 

[Mao]

Only if you join us.

[Turnsky]

Only if you join us.

if you're buying, i can go with that. 

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Do I want in, or do I want to run away screaming?

Hmm. Tough call.

[Mao]

Hmm.. I'm always an advocate of adding more boxes.

[Keleth]

Now is not the time for out of the box thinking.

[Mao]

Oh, I'm all about thinking in the box.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Just thinking?

[Mao]

It's all I can manage.

[Sofox]

Congratulations everyone, you've just created a conversations where "putting something in the box" now has a sexual connotation.

[Mao]

Uh, Sofox?  Box has been a euphemism for a very long time.  Do try to keep up.

[Sofox]

If I wanted to keep up with every single word that can or has been used as a sexual euphemism, I'd just read the dictionary

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

You mean you don't do that for shits and giggles?

[Sofox]

How did you know that?

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I watch everyone. Didn't you know?

btw: close your curtains when you do that thing.

[Destina Faroda]

I saw the movie, and while it isn't the absolute best thing ever, it is still a very good movie, and a reminder that film is as much a visual experience and not necessarily a vehicle for narrative.

To be fair, I did have some issues with the film, namely how matter of fact all of the groundbreaking concepts and explanations seemed to be rushed aside in favor of getting to the central tale.  The story is a bit predictable with some corny lines, but that doesn't mean the story is bad.  Tropes are sometimes useful, and twists are not always good.   The story is told well at least enough screen time is devoted to the characters so that we can get to understand them.  While I wouldn't have gone in the direction that Cameron did, it doesn't invalidate the choices he made.

Hating a movie solely because of agenda is not necessarily valid criticism.  I mean, I absolutely hate the agenda pushed by the Incredibles, but I have to admit that it's a really good movie.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

... The Incredibles had an agenda? I must have missed that, buried in laughing at the fun.

What was it, then? Be nice to everyone in case they go mad, become a super villain, and take over the world? Don't wear a cape in case you happen to be standing on the wing of an aeroplane on your magic boots of flying, and you get sucked into a jet engine?

[Sofox]

Llearch: Weirdly enough, I've also heard from someone I knew about The Incredibles having an agenda.
It's some thing that if someone has an ability, they should show it to the world and not be concerned about holding back for the sake of other people... or something. I don't get it myself. I live in a society where it's perfectly fine for someone to go out and do their best with whatever abilities (or more likely, with lots of hard work) they have; and deserve whatever they get as a result (as long as they don't do it dishonestly or genuinely immorally of course). If someone resents someone else for what they have, they're just a begrudger, and no one likes a begrudger (not that an open expression of envy every now and then isn't healthy).

[Turnsky]

Llearch: Weirdly enough, I've also heard from someone I knew about The Incredibles having an agenda.
It's some thing that if someone has an ability, they should show it to the world and not be concerned about holding back for the sake of other people... or something. I don't get it myself. I live in a society where it's perfectly fine for someone to go out and do their best with whatever abilities (or more likely, with lots of hard work) they have; and deserve whatever they get as a result (as long as they don't do it dishonestly or genuinely immorally of course). If someone resents someone else for what they have, they're just a begrudger, and no one likes a begrudger (not that an open expression of envy every now and then isn't healthy).

.....  that's reaching just a tad.

[Destina Faroda]

My problem with the Incredibles is two fold.  On one hand, it is supposed to encourage those with abilities to use those abilities, yet at the same time, encourages people to hide their abilities (note that the family still goes back to maintaining the facade, instead of becoming full-time superheroes).  Also, it portrays the common man as a villain, a man who not only compensates for his lack of ability, but is willing to share (albeit for a price) the experience of being a "super" thereby leveling the playing field.  Syndrome was about making people equal by empowering those who'd choose to be empowered, while getting revenge on those who thought of themselves as superior because of their powers.

Only the "special" can be heroes, and they will do anything in their power to prevent normal people from achieving their status.  How sad.

[Darkmoon]

Well, here's the thing. For one, they don't just go back to pretending to be unspecial. The reason they go back to their secret identities is to ensure no other villains can easily find out who they are. It's a trope of the superhero genre.

As for Syndrome being the everyman, I don't think he is. It's supersmart, smarter than almost anyone. He uses that "power" to kill, to destroy, to ransom. He's not a good person, and evil will never triumph.

[thegayhare]

A good example of Darkmoon's point in there going back to the mask is the danger that came to there home because one man knew who they were behind there mask.  the whole movie showed how dangerous that could be culminating in Syndrom's atempted kidnapping of Jak Jak.  The scene at the end with the underminer shows that they are still openenly playing the super hero rolesince they were out in uniform fighting bad guys.

In most cases the un powered super hero's, villains usualy have something else going for them.  Batman has money, so he can afford the best training in the world the best equipment.  since he also owns a high tech company he can poach bleeding edge tech from best minds in there feild.  and thats with out facting in his way above average intelleganceand analytical mind.

Tony stark Ironman is a genuis and again a millionaire.  for him he's a tactician but in a super sense the suit does most of the work.

Punisher is the closest to an everyman but even he has an edge, in military training, police training and a willingness to kill.

[Kafzeil]

Okay...I feel REALLY stupid saying this. And you say whatever you like to me about it but...

I liked this movie. I saw it and really, I only realized how long it was when I I noticed how dark it was outside.

The movie was okay in term of plot, but Cameron at least proves he's a goo enough director to make it all work somehow. The movie was at least well acted, the the design of the creature,s Pandora, and even the tech was done well, and even looked better on screen.I honestly couldn't believe that  the human actors where the only real thing.Admittedly, Cameron tries too hard at time s to impress, and sometimes it can lea  d to massive fridge logic moments. I was fine with the floating mountains right until I asked myself "Where the Hell is that water coming from?"

Cameron, however, while no Hitchcock or Scorsese, puts that fratboy Bay back in his place and let's us all know whom the King of Sci-fi blockbusters really is. The movie is three hours long, but Holy Hell you would never believe that. It's paced well enough that I didn't really notice how long it truly was. Cameron also shows us he's really good at sucking you into the film.

As for the morals/message...I was surprised at how subdued it was. It was still painfully obvious, but oddly enough Cameron was at least somewhat fair. The scientists are the most sympathetic and likable  characters, even more so then the Na'vi and the main character. Though I did see Jake as more of a take on becoming the mask, and potentially a little unstable.

All and an all, I still felt District 9(No Gab, you're not the only one who loved D9, I can attest to that) was a better movie that handled it's subject matter better then Avatar, but Avatar is good enough that, in my mind, makes up for Titanic, and might just be Cameron's comeback as a director.

I'm sorry James, that I doubted you so much. Now, I await my humiliation from my fellow boardmembers. From the pro-Avatar side from being a tool, and the anti-Avatar side for being a turncoat.

[Destina Faroda]

Syndrome isn't an everyman, but he is what I consider, a common person with exceptional intellect.  He isn't blessed with inherent superpowers, and when he was young, he was a fan of the power structure, until he felt snubbed.  While on the surface his actions were petty revenge over something that wasn't even actually wrong, Buddy Pine actually pulled himself up by own bootstraps, and came up with a clever plan that would not only elevate himself, but would also destroy the idea of this rigid power structure.  His intentions were wrong, but unlike a lot of other villains who come up with similar plots, he did the work to obtain his power.  Thus, I can't help but admire his character in a way.

I'm not saying Syndrome was a good person (they brought out the sledgehammers with the whole plane scene), but I sympathized with him a lot more than I did with Mr. Incredible, and I felt his story was by far the more resonating of the two.  Mr. Incredible chose to live a life of quiet desperation, then succumbed to Syndrome's temptation.  But because he's a super and has a good heart, he's allowed to lie to his family, carry on emotional affair with the idea of reliving his glory days.  He's not permitted to pay for his deception with death, but Syndrome gets to lose everything he worked years and be reduced to a baby-snatching boogeyman because he's not a super and never will be.  The movie's message:  If you're average, then accept your fate because at best you'll be like Mirage and see the error of working for a madman, or at worst, like Two Face, you live to see yourself become the villain...and dead.  (I will say the Incredibles illustrated this point a lot better than The Dark Knight...but that's another story).

But what bothers me about the family going back to secret identities is that the mask is what gave them trouble in the first place.  Syndrome's plan was only able to work because superheroes were forced to to hide.  If superheroes were allowed to be open about who they are, Syndrome wouldn't have been able to tempt the heroes into clandestine missions and kill them.

Kafzeil, I feel similarly to the way you do about Avatar.  The reviews make the Na'vi out to be Noble Savages and while there is that element, the Na'vi aren't treated as universally without prejudice or gullible fools (in fact, their inability to trust the humans causes as much conflict as the human imperialism).  On a side note, I found District 9 to be overrated trash, as the allegory in that movie was not only as subtle as an anvil (where the aliens ARE gullible fools except for the "special" ones), but I simply could not believe the main character.  No man that stupid can go from being selfish to becoming a willing sacrifice in 72 hours, in spite of what happened.

[RJ]

Screw the plot, Avatar had SPARKLES. And that's good enough for me. 

Though I do kinda wish it had been kept like he originally planned.

[techmaster-glitch]

RJ HAS RETURNED! 

(hopefully for a longer stay this time... )