18/05/08 [Abel 2 #17] - Sane Proposals?

[AndersW]

Reinforcing my thoughts on Aniz and Edward, Fa'lina told Abel that Dan is Edward's son, not Aniz's son... ok, now I can't find what I thought I remembered seeing. In #426 Abel presumably knows the relevant facts from Dan's folder. I could have sworn I recalled Fa'lina naming Dan as Edward's son at some point.

You are thinking of Ink in #527.

[Zedd]

I feel he wants the ban off badly

[GabrielsThoughts]

you know, if Fa'lina wanted to be particularly cruel she would have him stay on as a female instructor or something...

Although I'm still fond of the demon eyes Kyo theory where Aniz and Cid are two separate individuals Being and Cubi that share the same body as a result of a magical accident that occurred fifty  or sixty years earlier. I'm not sure if amber has negated this one or not.

[Naldru]

Reinforcing my thoughts on Aniz and Edward, Fa'lina told Abel that Dan is Edward's son, not Aniz's son... ok, now I can't find what I thought I remembered seeing. In #426 Abel presumably knows the relevant facts from Dan's folder. I could have sworn I recalled Fa'lina naming Dan as Edward's son at some point.

You are thinking of Ink in #527.

Actually, I think he's thinking of this one.

[Shadrok]

With cubi/cubi pairing, which does the offspring get their looks from then, a mix of both like any other?

Not to mention what would the clan marking look like. Would it be the father's, the mother's, or neither one?

[AmigaDragon]

Reinforcing my thoughts on Aniz and Edward, Fa'lina told Abel that Dan is Edward's son, not Aniz's son... ok, now I can't find what I thought I remembered seeing. In #426 Abel presumably knows the relevant facts from Dan's folder. I could have sworn I recalled Fa'lina naming Dan as Edward's son at some point.

You are thinking of Ink in #527.

Actually, I think he's thinking of this one.

426 is where he first hears Dan's name, but 527 is the one I was misremembering as Edward being mentioned. There's obviously something between Abel and the Ti'fiona family, particularly with Edward as was implied by Ink.

[Victoire Épique]

And who'd be able and willing to pin her down to get a blood sample? 

Alexi? Nothing less than a dragon. Or four. Unless she has a war hammer hidden in the hyperspace next to the mallet.

Yeah, just throw a dragon or four at a Ti'Fiona? Smart move, that.


Anyway, my first thoughts on the comic were: If he runs, then his return to the academy should tie in nicely with the main storyline, and would kind of explain an odd question Abel asked... Though that may well have been explained and I'm just being stupid. Either way.
If he stays... Well, fun, controversy, traumatised Abel, and whoo.

Now, on the whole Edward = Aniz thing (which I personally don't believe), perhaps he really was a 'cubi and Destania knew about it - hence why she didn't steal his soul. I mean, she was going to for a second there.

And on the whole Alexsi thing (if Aniz was Alexsi's father, she should be a cubi), pairing up with a creature more powerful than themselves usually results in non-cubi children. Though that would imply, even if Alexsi were not a cubi, she would still have power. She appears to me as a normal being.
...Though come to think of it, she has apparently only been bested in combat by three different people...
Hm, and looking at her cast page, the mallet was apparently her mother's - her mother whom apparently died because of 'unsaid reasons'.

I also quite like Tycoon's logic earlier on in the thread, if you want more to think about.

Still, I think Edward Ti'Fiona is simply... well known. Very well known. Well known enough to cause suspicious reactions from creatures.
I mean, after all, he did somehow disarm a cubi who was supposedly a cold-hearted creature that taught torture and stuff and at one point wanted to use children and stuff in her lessons. That takes a bit of skill, y'know.

Well, that's my tuppence.
I like this whole thinking-too-much thing. It's fun.
Whatever the case is, I foresee many more twists and turns throughout the rest of the season and the next with a medium to high chance of brain explosions or implosions. Now back to you, [generic reporter name here].

[Mwa]

And who'd be able and willing to pin her down to get a blood sample? 

Alexi? Nothing less than a dragon. Or four. Unless she has a war hammer hidden in the hyperspace next to the mallet.

I can think of one dragon that could 'pin' her down easy.

[Victoire Épique]

And who'd be able and willing to pin her down to get a blood sample? 

Alexi? Nothing less than a dragon. Or four. Unless she has a war hammer hidden in the hyperspace next to the mallet.

I can think of one dragon that could 'pin' her down easy.

...
Now you have me imagining it!

[Tapewolf]

With cubi/cubi pairing, which does the offspring get their looks from then, a mix of both like any other?

We don't know.  It's something I've long been curious about, though.

Not to mention what would the clan marking look like. Would it be the father's, the mother's, or neither one?

That we do know.  The child is affiliated with the stronger clan.

And on the whole Alexsi thing (if Aniz was Alexsi's father, she should be a cubi), pairing up with a creature more powerful than themselves usually results in non-cubi children. Though that would imply, even if Alexsi were not a cubi, she would still have power. She appears to me as a normal being.

I'm not sure how you're getting that out of the text, but it does imply - twice - that the child is not guaranteed to be a 'Cubi.  I'd go by the 3/4 rule at a guess.

I mean, after all, he did somehow disarm a cubi who was supposedly a cold-hearted creature that taught torture and stuff and at one point wanted to use children and stuff in her lessons. That takes a bit of skill, y'know.

I still say he's 'Cubi, Aniz or no.  Destania's change more likely came from motherhood - things like that do happen to people.

[Victoire Épique]

And on the whole Alexsi thing (if Aniz was Alexsi's father, she should be a cubi), pairing up with a creature more powerful than themselves usually results in non-cubi children. Though that would imply, even if Alexsi were not a cubi, she would still have power. She appears to me as a normal being.

I'm not sure how you're getting that out of the text, but it does imply - twice - that the child is not guaranteed to be a 'Cubi.  I'd go by the 3/4 rule at a guess.

Well, if her mother were more powerful than a cubi, one would think there'd be some kind of passage of power. Not necessarily true, but that's just the impression I have. I could very easily be wrong, of course.
'Sides. The Ti'Fionas are interesting enough as it is...

I mean, after all, he did somehow disarm a cubi who was supposedly a cold-hearted creature that taught torture and stuff and at one point wanted to use children and stuff in her lessons. That takes a bit of skill, y'know.

I still say he's 'Cubi, Aniz or no.  Destania's change more likely came from motherhood - things like that do happen to people.

I wasn't really being serious about that one.

I admit that the side for Edward being a cubi seems pretty strong, but I don't like how Alexsi fits into it - she seems like a hole in the argument, which is why I was thinking about how it would be possible. That I can't think of anything really conclusive is the only reason I don't believe Ed's a cubi.

[Tapewolf]

Well, if her mother were more powerful than a cubi, one would think there'd be some kind of passage of power. Not necessarily true, but that's just the impression I have. I could very easily be wrong, of course.

Ah, I see - you're assuming the mother was also a Creature.  I may have nailed my flag to the Aniz-Edward theory, but I don't see Quin being anything other than a Being with what we know so far.

I admit that the side for Edward being a cubi seems pretty strong, but I don't like how Alexsi fits into it - she seems like a hole in the argument, which is why I was thinking about how it would be possible.

There are flaws in the theory, but I don't think they're large enough to sink it so far.  There are bigger holes in the idea of Aniz being Abel's father and it happened, so I think it's just that there are some pieces missing.

[Victoire Épique]

Ah, I see - you're assuming the mother was also a Creature.  I may have nailed my flag to the Aniz-Edward theory, but I don't see Quin being anything other than a Being with what we know so far.

True... But then that makes Alexsi even more confusing. =/
I'm pretty sure that being + cubi = cubi.

There are flaws in the theory, but I don't think they're large enough to sink it so far.  There are bigger holes in the idea of Aniz being Abel's father and it happened, so I think it's just that there are some pieces missing.

I'm not really sure on how, but I'm happy to accept that Aniz being Abel's father is a bit holey.
You're right that the flaws aren't major enough to pose a problem, it's just a bit irritating.
Though I trust everything will be explained in time.
Some important things are going on, after all. I suspect we're approaching the midpoint of all this confusion.

[Tafreer]

Aniz did kill Cid-- what is there to stop him from killing Edward after Alexsi was already born?

[Mischa]

All I know is, I just want to give Fa'Lina a biiiiig hug.  Especially with her expression in panel 3. 

Although... looking back at the older pictures of Fa'Lina, it's a little surprising to see how much Amber's style has continued to develop.  She looks even more awesome now. 

[GabrielsThoughts]

it's not like there is a true continuity in the DMFA universes, we only have the altered  perceptions of specific individuals through which the story is centered... which means I can get away with practically anything within the realm of plausibility.

For instance I can argue that this isn't truly Abel's first adventure so much as the first one we are exposed too. I still think he had to have been traumatized in someway to react so juvenile to the earlier threat, considering the fact  23 is considered grown for a being, and he would have had some experience dealing with life at that point.

although we could argue that Abel hasn't been exposed to the shear amount of graphic violence humans have been exposed to over the centuries...

[Goatmon]

If Edward were Aniz and he knew Destania was a Succubus, why hide his form at that point anymore?

Because the guests at the inn would kill her first, and then him.

I'd have to wonder just how many guests were on the verge of violence at that point, if that were the case.  I mean, an experienced aventurer is no match for an average succubus, and it seems like two cubi, both who've lived for centuries, would be more than a match for a dozen of them. 

But what do I know?   

[Raffe]

I'd have to wonder just how many guests were on the verge of violence at that point, if that were the case.  I mean, an experienced aventurer is no match for an average succubus, and it seems like two cubi, both who've lived for centuries, would be more than a match for a dozen of them. 

But what do I know?   

Well, although Aniz went all 'rampage mode' afterwards, Hennya did get a good hit on him.
Then again, Aniz did play an adventurer while being Cid, so he was probably just taken off-guard.

[Tapewolf]

I'd have to wonder just how many guests were on the verge of violence at that point, if that were the case.  I mean, an experienced aventurer is no match for an average succubus, and it seems like two cubi, both who've lived for centuries, would be more than a match for a dozen of them. 

I think it's a bit more evenly-matched than that, SAIA having been founded to try and protect 'Cubi from adventurers and suchlike.  Besides, Dee was still very weak at that point so she wouldn't have posed much of a problem to a band of warriors.  Depending on how many adventurers there were, there may well have been enough of them to take Edward-Aniz down as well en masse, though he'd likely get a few in the process.

[Goatmon]

Perhaps a bit more even, but I'd say that since he took down a very pissed off creature (Henya) on insticts alone, some 300+ years prior, he's probably able to handle a good number of adventurers alone.

However we have no idea how many there were, so there's no way to tell what the actual odds were.

Mind you I'm not agreeing/disagreeing with the Aniz is Edward theory.  But I can't resist gnawing on interesting scenarios.   

[Raffe]

Hmmm...remembering that wing tentacles can be very very sharp, would the ultimate defense for a cubi be a spinning ball with 'sword tentacles' spun out in every direction?  I suppose that would work until one had a fire spell or other...also wondering that though they are sharp enough to cleave right through flesh, could they cut steel? Is there a limit to number of tentacles?

[Naldru]

If Edward were Aniz and he knew Destania was a Succubus, why hide his form at that point anymore?

Because the guests at the inn would kill her first, and then him.

I'd have to wonder just how many guests were on the verge of violence at that point, if that were the case.  I mean, an experienced aventurer is no match for an average succubus, and it seems like two cubi, both who've lived for centuries, would be more than a match for a dozen of them. 

But what do I know?  

Look.  Aniz was running a business.  Revealing that he was a cubi might be bad for business.  I remember a quote from a person explaining how Christians and Muslims could work together in war-torn Beirut:  Look.  War is war, but business is business.

[Tapewolf]

...also wondering that though they are sharp enough to cleave right through flesh, could they cut steel? Is there a limit to number of tentacles?

A well-trained incubus can crush/cut rocks, so probably, yes.  I'd have to dig up the reference, but IIRC there is no fixed limit.  However it's not usual to have more than 4 or so  which is about the limit for them to be controlled reflexively, like Dan's.  Any more than that and they have to be consciously-controlled which becomes correspondingly more difficult as the number of limbs increases.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

A well-trained incubus can crush/cut rocks, so probably, yes.  I'd have to dig up the reference, but IIRC there is no fixed limit.  However it's not usual to have more than 4 or so  which is about the limit for them to be controlled reflexively, like Dan's.  Any more than that and they have to be consciously-controlled which becomes correspondingly more difficult as the number of limbs increases.

Sort of like patting your belly whilst rubbing your head, only, since you also have the arms and legs and back-wings and head-wings to deal with, you're talking orders of magnitude harder for each additional tentacle.

Sure you can pass off some of the wings and arms and legs to your subconscious, but that results in a less effective use... and if you drop your tentacles to the same thing, you end up having them ... attack the sink, for example, which, while impressive and interesting, isn't exactly useful.

I'd think that 4 or 6 or so would be about the effective maximum anyway; that's 6-10 effective limbs to control (depending on if you count the legs or not; 2 legs, 2 arms, 2 wings, 4 tentacles) mid-battle; even that's going to be fairly tricky unless you're extremely well practised. There are going to be exceptions - people who are naturally good at it, or who have practised a lot, or both - but by and large, anyone using tentacles is likely to fall back to using two, more or less, in my opinion. Although there might be two more floating around, watching things, chances are they'll use two mainly and two minor, and mostly avoid using arms or legs at the same time; using the tentacles as extremely long and agile arms, sort of thing.


In a related point, I'm not sure if Megan would be naturally gifted, or naturally disadvantaged, there; since she has more limbs to start with, the part of her brain controlling limbs may be much larger and hence more able to deal with more limbs; or it may be much larger, but already over-subscribed, as it were, and hence she'd be more clumsy. Flip a coin; either way is equally likely, on basis of the information we have to hand.


All this is, of course, my 2p, and not canon. It makes sense, but we all know that Amber is really really good at whipping out that steamroller. ;-]

[Aleolus]

Hmmm, is anyone else thinking this is Fa'Lina's way of telling Aniz "Stay with me, that's all I'm wanting, but can't actually say it."  Now I understand why Aniz couldn't profess his love for Abel's mother, he was already in love with Fa'Lina, superintendent of the Cubi Academy!  It all makes perfect sense now!  Love will triumph in the end, Fa'Lina, you may be certain of that!

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

....

Where do I get some of whatever it is that you're smoking?

[Aleolus]

It's called "Refuses to believe that people can be evil until given absolutely no alternative, and will take any possible alternative, no matter how ridiculous"

[AndersW]

The number of tentacles question has come up before.  And was answered by Amber.

A Cubi can make a dozen tentacles from their wings if they really wanted to.  Its more about the skill level one can handle since after a certain point, they have to put their own concentration into moving all those parts.  The average Cubi tends to base off around 4-5 tendrils naturally, though some have been known to do 8.

And really...anything more than that is just excessive and most Cubi know that a dozen tentacles can become a hazard moreso than a benefit.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Ah, so my finger in the wind was about accurate. Good to know... ;-]

(although I like Amber's phrasing more than mine *grin*)

[Naldru]

It's called "Refuses to believe that people can be evil until given absolutely no alternative, and will take any possible alternative, no matter how ridiculous"

I don't think that Aniz was in love with Fa'lina, but I do think that they were good friends until unfortunate circumstances forced them to be on different sides.

I also believe that both Aniz and Abel are trying to make careers out of being jerks, and are neurotically unable to admit that they care for anybody else, a situation that makes their lives miserable although they will never admit that either.