09/08/07 it slices it dices! abel's Story [#97]

[Naldru]

I don't think the idea of self-defense matters, because creatures don't see killing as a criminal offense, according to Kria.  If anything, it's more like the weregild concept of killing being a civil issue.  At this moment, the only possibility I can see for Hennya is that the morphing amulet might be able to convert the mythos pieces into an intact being.  I'm not holding out much hope because the trend seems to be that everyone who helps Abel dies  (Cindy, Xander, Devin) or is revealed as a monster (Cid/Aniz, Kria).  Based on that, things don't look good for May.

[Mock AV]

She was chopped into pieces, ouch. But... it looks like it didn't turn out to good for Aniz. Maybe NOW we'll see what a pissed off Mytho is capable of in Amber's World?

[bill]

She was chopped into pieces, ouch. But... it looks like it didn't turn out to good for Aniz. Maybe NOW we'll see what a pissed off Mytho is capable of in Amber's World?

No, but we may see what delightful recipes we can make with one! 



Rachael Ray can help.

[Turnsky]

i reccomend judicious use of duct tape 

[bill]

I recommend pesto sauce.

[Cogidubnus]

She was chopped into pieces, ouch. But... it looks like it didn't turn out to good for Aniz. Maybe NOW we'll see what a pissed off Mytho is capable of in Amber's World?

I don't quite think he's afraid of Hennya. Perhaps, some of the earlier comments would be applicable?
It does appear that he is under some sorts of rules, here. He's already said Fa'lina is likely to get on his case as-is, so...I wonder if she will care that he's killed a Mythos, now.
Perhaps Aniz thinks so.

[Mock AV]

.... I don't think so, I mean, if he could chop her into pieces like that, I'd think he would know an easy way to subdue her without breaking any rules he may be bound to.

[Cogidubnus]

.... I don't think so, I mean, if he could chop her into pieces like that, I'd think he would know an easy way to subdue her without breaking any rules he may be bound to.

Not if he's pissed off! 

I would point to the change in speech bubble, and the red-glowing eyes. Bloodlust and anger, if I ever saw it.

[techmaster-glitch]

Oh. My. Gods.

I can't belive it.

I'm going now.

[GabrielsThoughts]

Is it possible cid is like  Demon eye's Kyo?

[Madmann135]

Mythos abilities are vast and wide, for all we know Hennya could have did a bait and switch.
(I'm hoping that Hennya is still alive, I liked her she's funny  )

Aniz does seem to have a split personality. look at the way he was speaking.  Even in an enraged state you don't completely loose yourself like that.  For one it makes you an easier target if someone knows what to do and two it is difficult to come out of a trance and see what you have done, especially if it's something you didn't want to do.

Also it seems as if Hennya is in 10 peaces, it appears as if one of her arms were forcibly removed. 
I've seen even more elaborate death fake scenes in movies and other comics.  Kitsunes give the beast fake death scenes and I'm still hoping that Hennya is OK. 

... She's not a stupid girl... please be OK. 
I hope she used a doppelganger trick or something similar in her place and survived the attack (I know I'm grasping at straws).

[Jack McSlay]

maybe he's pissed because hennya was venomous 

[Fuyudenki]

Is it self-defense, really, if the attacker is herself doing it in defense of others?

yes, because if he hadn't killed her, Hennya was going to kill him.  What he's done previously still stands, but personally, I wouldn't hold this particular event against him.

after all, he's already killed a man(that might have been self-defense, as well), taken his place, fathered a child with the dead man's wife, and possibly scarred both May and Abel for the rest of their lives.  What's one more death, more or less?

Something tells me Hennya isn't coming back.  I think she'd have been referenced in the present storyline if she was.

[GabrielsThoughts]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fceezuQKUE8

[Caswin]

Is it self-defense, really, if the attacker is herself doing it in defense of others?

yes, because if he hadn't killed her, Hennya was going to kill him. What he's done previously still stands, but personally, I wouldn't hold this particular event against him.

after all, he's already killed a man(that might have been self-defense, as well), taken his place, fathered a child with the dead man's wife, and possibly scarred both May and Abel for the rest of their lives.  What's one more death, more or less?

Uh... a death's a death?

And I seem to recall Amber saying she actually wasn't going for a mortal wound, not that it would be clear one war or another from the comic.

[Cogidubnus]

Aniz does seem to have a split personality. look at the way he was speaking.  Even in an enraged state you don't completely loose yourself like that.  For one it makes you an easier target if someone knows what to do and two it is difficult to come out of a trance and see what you have done, especially if it's something you didn't want to do.

You are mistaking berserker-esque action with bad judgment. Strong rage and anger (caused by, say, sharp pointy teeth in your shoulder) cause you to make bad decisions. It was hardly as if Aniz went totally insane and killed everyone there, after all.
Like a murderer with a twitchy trigger finger, he got pissed off, and pulled. It was as simple as that (No, really. Look how he killed her. It was as simple as that.). It didn't take him totally losing his mind to do it.
Just his better judgement, for a moment.

[Zedd]

A slite of all blind range...And now..Zina do you want some eel sauce with that sushi?

[Fuyudenki]

Uh... a death's a death?

And I seem to recall Amber saying she actually wasn't going for a mortal wound, not that it would be clear one war or another from the comic.

Death is one thing.  Murder is entirely different.  If a man invades your home and is trying to rob, kill, and/or rape you or your family members, the use of lethal force is perfectly justified.

Nonlethal force is justified, as well.  Ultimately, it's up to the would-be victim to decide which is the most expedient solution.

But when you catch the two shady figures entering through your back window, wearing masks, just remember one thing: dead men file no lawsuits.

[candide]

Well, seeing as I like to shave with Occam's Razor, I'll go for the simpler explanation:

1. Aniz lost his temper.  Some folks ... get kinda scary when they lose their temper.  Being a well-trained incubus, Aniz made quick work of his opponent.

Unfortunately...

2. That "opponent" is a friend of his son's.  He's just driven a rather sizable wedge between himself and the son he spent 25 years of impersonation for.  Given the lifespan of 'cubi, that's a wedge that'll last for centuries.

So, instead of making a hasty transformation from Cid to his actual form, then departing with Abel to SAIA, Aniz just made a total mess.


The only thing open, in my mind, is whether or not Hennya's bite was poisonous.

[Caswin]

Uh... a death's a death?

And I seem to recall Amber saying she actually wasn't going for a mortal wound, not that it would be clear one war or another from the comic.

Death is one thing.  Murder is entirely different.  If a man invades your home and is trying to rob, kill, and/or rape you or your family members

That would be Aniz, I think, not Hennya.

[nikename2]

Why does it look like Aniz lobotomized Abel in the last panel with a wing tentacle.  

[Fuyudenki]

That would be Aniz, I think, not Hennya.

True, but I still stand by my statement.

Why does it look like Aniz lobotomized Abel in the last panel with a wing tentacle. 

I believe that's the edge of Abel's hand, holding his head.  Close shot, not much to see, but I love how Amber pays attention to the ever-important little details like that!

[Caswin]

That would be Aniz, I think, not Hennya.

True, but I still stand by my statement.

That - just to be clear - Hennya, acting in defense-of-others, is justified as a result?

I just asked in the first place because of all the users who operate (mainly where 'cubi are concerned) by "their prerogative = a-ok", checking the overall reaction to an actual on-panel murder of a much-beloved (HENNYA IS DEAD ) character.

[Fuyudenki]

That would be Aniz, I think, not Hennya.

True, but I still stand by my statement.

That - just to be clear - Hennya, acting in defense-of-others, is justified as a result?

I just asked in the first place because of all the users who operate (mainly where 'cubi are concerned) by "their prerogative = a-ok", checking the overall reaction to an actual on-panel murder of a much-beloved (HENNYA IS DEAD ) character.

If 'good' had won out here, Hennya would have sliced-and-diced Aniz.  Aniz probably deserves to die for many of the things he's done, and Hennya was only protecting her good friends.

However, Hennya was protecting her good friends with potentially lethal force, and it was pretty clear that it was going to be difficult for Aniz to protect himself while still leaving her alive, so he had to resort to lethal force to protect his own life.

The verdict I'm coming to is more than a little bit conflicted.  On the one hand, Aniz killed someone who hadn't done anything wrong.  Usually, this is called "murder."  On the other hand, Aniz still deserves the chance to protect his own life, even if this means taking the life of an attacker.  This is called self-defense.

There's no clean answer.  In real life, in situations like these, there rarely is.

[Alondro]

*Charline grins happily* Ah, I had a feeling it would be a Trepadora-like moment.   And thus we see once more why we cubi are superior!  Of course, if Aniz disobeyed a direct order from a superior cubi, he must also be killed and his soul devoured.

I call executioner!  

[nikename2]

Executed as in he fails the pain and torture class at SAIA from killing one of them too early? And thus must retake the ENTIRE course again? 

[Caswin]

That would be Aniz, I think, not Hennya.

True, but I still stand by my statement.

That - just to be clear - Hennya, acting in defense-of-others, is justified as a result?

I just asked in the first place because of all the users who operate (mainly where 'cubi are concerned) by "their prerogative = a-ok", checking the overall reaction to an actual on-panel murder of a much-beloved (HENNYA IS DEAD ) character.

However, Hennya was protecting her good friends with potentially lethal force, and it was pretty clear that it was going to be difficult for Aniz to protect himself while still leaving her alive, so he had to resort to lethal force to protect his own life.

Uh... there's no real evidence that she was going to kill him (and in fact evidence against it), and he probably could have easily fought her off; the general consensus - backed by what we've seen - seems to be that what's happened was the result of a lapse in judgment.

That, and an inhabitant of the metaphorical household attacks the invader with, let's say, a bat.  Does the invader, who came in of his own volition to do bad things, have the right to attack or kill that person?

[Fuyudenki]

That, and an inhabitant of the metaphorical household attacks the invader with, let's say, a bat.  Does the invader, who came in of his own volition to do bad things, have the right to attack or kill that person?

I'd say he's still entitled to defend himself.  He's already breaking and entering which, in my mind, should be punishable by death, anyway.

I think we shouldn't keep using this thread for an ethics discussion, but to show that I'm not trying to just shut you down and declare victory, I'll let you have the last word.  I won't respond.

[Caswin]

I think we shouldn't keep using this thread for an ethics discussion

Good call.

[Manawolf]

::Duran sharpens his greataxe with every tasteless comment::