Cybernations

[Tezkat]

Heh. Valhalla is at the size where CN is Serious Business. Srsly. So we're generally too small to matter in events large enough to affect them. Our alliance is in a funny position. Most under-the-political-radar alliances don't have nations anywhere near as strong as ours--they're just collections of little nations. That we've lasted this long without folding into a larger alliance is a rather anomolous situation on Planet Bob. The only nations that present a serious threat to us now have 30k+ NS, 20 nukes, $50 mil in the bank, and the backing of hundreds of other large nations. And we could even do serious damage to those people in a conflict where we had outside military support. I'm sure they would be very happy about the prospect of a merger. Diplomatic relations? Perhaps not so much...


The "government" thing is honestly just a formality. Like... take these guys, for instance. (I assume they're one of the other prospective Pegasus signatories.) Now look at their roster. Aside from that one big guy, they're all smaller than our smallest nation, and they have more government/military positions than they do members.


In the spirit of Purple economic cooporation and new friendship, go ask them if they want to sell us tech. (Standard $3 mil/100 tech is fine.) They'll love you forever.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

The "government" thing is honestly just a formality. Like... take these guys, for instance. (I assume they're one of the other prospective Pegasus signatories.) Now look at their roster. Aside from that one big guy, they're all smaller than our smallest nation, and they have more government/military positions than they do members.


In the spirit of Purple economic cooporation and new friendship, go ask them if they want to sell us tech. (Standard $3 mil/100 tech is fine.) They'll love you forever.

GLU says they're in Pegasus already. So I'll see about getting that organised...

[Tezkat]

Ah... so until Pegasus goes public, it's just a quiet protectorate agreement with Elysium. That's fine with me.

Out of curiosity, will Elysium be joining Valhalla and TORN in the current conflict?

I'm gonna stay at high alert for a few days, but I suspect that anyone large enough to raid us has far more exciting things to do at the moment.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Thank gawd for that. We've got enough trouble as it stands....

Now where the hell is Kasarn, anyway?

[Valynth]

I can't speak for Kasarn, but I just got a 1mil cash boost from an unwitting raider.  Go me! 

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Ah... so until Pegasus goes public, it's just a quiet protectorate agreement with Elysium. That's fine with me.

"Correct"

Out of curiosity, will Elysium be joining Valhalla and TORN in the current conflict?

"Not at this time."

... from GLU, of course.

[Valynth]

Well, I woke up this morning and found that I had yet another raider.  This one, however, wasn't satisfied with one ground assault, he tried to weaken me with two cruise strikes and two air attacks.  The first air attack was a slight success for them, but I pwned the second one.  He then attacked me via ground and added 1,000,000$ to my bank.

I extended peace to him, and the other guy has yet to accept my peace offer.

[Tezkat]

Yeah... RoT seems to think that airstrikes and missiles are acceptable tech raiding tools. Their Prime Minister used them to soften me up a week ago. Do we have formal relations with them yet? A strongly worded letter might be in order. We've been hit by six of their nations since last week (that I know about, anyway--some might already have been peaced out and deleted between my logins):


4/21/2008 11:54:02 PM
Euro South Africa
Ruler: General Jangles
Alliance: Realm of Titans
vs.
Throne of the Jaguar
Ruler: Tezkat
Alliance: Defensive Mutually-Friendly Alliance

4/21/2008 11:58:40 PM
Resort of Tangalooma
Ruler: King Mobius
Alliance: Realm of Titans
vs.
Throne of the Jaguar
Ruler: Tezkat
Alliance: Defensive Mutually-Friendly Alliance

4/26/2008 3:15:48 PM
Jens Wind country
Ruler: Jens of the desert
Alliance: Realm of Titans
vs.
Seerfir
Ruler: Kasarn
Alliance: Defensive Mutually-Friendly Alliance

4/26/2008 8:37:59 AM
fb hn
Ruler: Kwell
Alliance: Realm of Titans    
vs.
Dentrinition
Ruler: Valynth
Alliance: Defensive Mutually-Friendly Alliance

4/28/2008 4:00:10 PM
Jontopia
Ruler: man of la mancha
Alliance: Realm of Titans    
vs.
Dentrinition
Ruler: Valynth
Alliance: Defensive Mutually-Friendly Alliance

4/29/2008 9:25:58 AM
Native States
Ruler: Native American
Alliance: Realm of Titans
vs.
Dentrinition
Ruler: Valynth
Alliance: Defensive Mutually-Friendly Alliance


I suppose it's some consolation that their competent fighters seem to have had their fill already.

By the way, in times of war, I would highly recommend buying (or swapping out some improvements for) a full set of Guerilla Camps. Just live off of savings and wait to collect taxes until it's over. (Or, alternately, keep destroying and rebuilding them. They're dirt cheap and can pay for themselves just in military/reconstruction savings.) It's difficult for a single nation to break through that with less than a quad.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Out of interest, did we get a final decision on a flag version?


'cause they say they need it for us to sign up, is all...


Edit:
Also, Tez, I have someone I'm dangling bait in front of to get them to trade with me. To whit, I'm offering half a mil for them to set up a harbour and trade; unfortunately, since I'm in peace mode, I'd have to collect 8 days of taxes in order to jump into war mode in order to aid him the money. At which point he can then trade with me, and I can... collect 8 days of back taxes at the increased rate. Not.

Reckon you'd be willing to schlep up with the cash in the short term? You know I'm good for it... *grin*

[Tezkat]

Out of interest, did we get a final decision on a flag version?


'cause they say they need it for us to sign up, is all...

Nope... we never really voted on it or anything.

As I posted earlier, I'm personally leaning towards the bolder colours:




But if we want Mab's DMFA colour scheme, I think my last mow flag attempt did the best job:




Unless you guys had others you were particularly fond of, maybe we could just take a quick vote on those two?

Edit:
Also, Tez, I have someone I'm dangling bait in front of to get them to trade with me. To whit, I'm offering half a mil for them to set up a harbour and trade; unfortunately, since I'm in peace mode, I'd have to collect 8 days of taxes in order to jump into war mode in order to aid him the money. At which point he can then trade with me, and I can... collect 8 days of back taxes at the increased rate. Not.

Reckon you'd be willing to schlep up with the cash in the short term? You know I'm good for it... *grin*

Not a problem. Where do I send the cash?

Seriously... get ouf of peace mode. The penalties are worse than anarchy.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I'd prefer the latter of those two.
GLU says he's used #3 off the page, though we can change it later, once we come to a decision. Since nobody else here seems to want to speak up, it's you and me and possibly Cog. And maybe Kasarn if he reappears. ;-]

Not a problem. Where do I send the cash?

I'm waiting on xcomm telling me he's accepting my offer...

Seriously... get ouf of peace mode. The penalties are worse than anarchy.

I would, but I'm sitting on those 8 days, and if I get that trade, I collect ~4.5m/day - if not, I collect ~2.3m/day. Obviously, I'd like to go for the former, not the latter. ;-]

Soon as I'm sorted on trades, I'll be back in the game.


Oh, and GLU says:

Welcome to Pegasus!
Make sure you let me know if anyone attacks from now on and I will take care of it and get you reps

[Tezkat]

I'd prefer the latter of those two.
GLU says he's used #3 off the page, though we can change it later, once we come to a decision. Since nobody else here seems to want to speak up, it's you and me and possibly Cog. And maybe Kasarn if he reappears. ;-]

Heh. with the low voting population, we might end up with one vote for each...

There isn't going to be a public announcement on the CN forums anytime soon, is there?

I'm waiting on xcomm telling me he's accepting my offer...

Okay. Just let me know when to send it off.

Oh, and GLU says:

Welcome to Pegasus!
Make sure you let me know if anyone attacks from now on and I will take care of it and get you reps

So... should we put "Elysium Protectorate" in our descriptions now?

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

There isn't going to be a public announcement on the CN forums anytime soon, is there?

<Great_Lakes_Union|Elysium> Actually there should be

So... should we put "Elysium Protectorate" in our descriptions now?

I'd suggest "Pegasus Mutual Defense Treaty Signatory" perhaps. GLU suggests waiting until after the announcement to mention Pegasus by name, though.

[Tezkat]

I'd suggest "Pegasus Mutual Defense Treaty Signatory" perhaps. GLU suggests waiting until after the announcement to mention Pegasus by name, though.

Um... well... since nobody except for few members of the in crowd even knows what that means, "Elysium Protectorate" seems more descriptive. That's what the other signatories are currently using anyway.

EDIT:


Okay... so the flags currently in the running...




It's like a little mow! Very DMFA. Unfortunately, it's also a little... I dunno... effeminate? Both Cog said llearch have said they like it.




Here's the one GLU is now using as our "official" flag. Everyone's first reaction to it seems to have been something to the effect of "OMG... so... much... mauve. " Has it been growing on people? I thought it did a decent job of capturing the DMFA colours, and it's not a bad compromise between the DMFA colours and the bolder designs. Tentative support from llearch a while back.




I love the colour combo, obviously. Just take a look at my character's colour scheme. The colours are still somewhat DMFA/CWM-ish, but it's also very well suited to CN's warrior culture. This is a flag that would look good on an MDP web. Got a good first impression from Cog.

[Darkdragon]

May I opt to abstinate unless there requires a deciding vote?

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

We'd rather you voted. ;-]


In other news, Tez, I gave up waiting for that one person and instead poked as many variants of people as I could to see what I could get. I got a bite inside of 7 minutes. *blink*

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Darkdragon, I have another possible tech seller out of my trade queries.

I'll see if I can get a middleman (Arcalane?) and get a tech trade set up sometime this week. Having just bought another wonder, I'll have to save up for a day or two to get the 3m; I'm looking at 3m -> Arc, Arc sends 1.4m to you and t'other guy, and you both send 50 tech back to me.

If that works for both of you, we'll pull that this week, and we'll do it again in a couple weeks. I reckon we can do maybe 4 runs of that before you bounce past the size where it works well.

[Arcalane]

Woo cat herding.

Also.

hello arcalane i hope that u run the alliance seeing that u have been in it the longest i will send this message to u. i am here to offer you guys great protection and more allies if u guys would merge with element i can promise that u and 1 other member of ur choice will get gov position in element. meaning that u will have a say in what goes on and u will also gain alot of access that others wouldnt if u thinks this is reasonable contact me back asap thanks slimd316

Why, god, why. I love the internet, but I also hate it.

Some of their top ranking members are much younger than ours, but are also more powerful.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

respond with "I'm sorry, I'm not in government in this alliance"


... don't tell him we don't -have- a government, though. ;-] We'll see if we can get him to send a message to -everyone- ;-]

Edit:
Heh. He's already pm'd me, too. I note that I'd be on page 2 or so. I also note that of their 204 countries, there are 58 wars currently in progress or just completed. A 1 in 4 chance of being attacked doesn't seem to me to be something worth looking into, and since they don't have any purple people in their top 20 or so, I doubt there will be too many purple people to trade with.

[Tezkat]

I was probably the first person he contacted. He was looking for an Aluminum/Lumber trade.

It's kinda funny, seeing as how we're in bed with Elysium now. They have an interesting method of warning off alliance poachers.


By the way guys, put a note in your nations' descriptions indicating that we're a protectorate. (Until Pegasus offishully goes live, we're using "Elysium Protectorate" instead.) That should stave most of the non-stupid raiders and poachers.


I see Kasarn made it back. Yay!


Is anyone interested in a mass tech deal of some kind? Rather than doing the tech banking thing I suggested earlier, I was thinking of circumventing the middleman entirely.

Something like this:

Tezkat sends $3 million each to our tech sellers. They send 50 tech to llearch and 50 tech to Kasarn. In 10 days, we do the same thing again, only this time llearch buys tech for me and Kasarn. And then again with Kasarn footing the bill. A complete cycle lasts a little over a month. That's 100 tech per month at a cost of $3 million each. No middlemen. If we have four tech sellers, that's 400 tech each at a one time cost of $12 million when it's your turn. If the sellers go all the way back to 0 tech after each shipment, each of them makes a monthly profit of around $4 million.


Darkdragon would be one of the tech sellers, of course. We'll probably need to look outside the alliance to expand the plan, but as I mentioned earlier, economic assistance could be a really good way to get closer to our new allies.

I'm going to pick up a Disaster Relief Agency next weekend, which should really help the alliance boosting. The raiders dashed my hopes of restarting my nuclear program--not enough cash left to finance a $100 million wonder this month.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I'd be up for that; if we can get it going, sure. Want me to post over in the PEACE forum looking for partners for such a plan?

I think your numbers might be a bit off, too. If we have 4 sellers and 3 buyers, each buyer spends 12, and each seller sends 100 tech each time. That's 400 tech for 12 million, and 1200 tech per month; each buyer gets 200/cycle for 2 of 3 cycles.

Am I right? Did you slip something, or was it just confusion in the description?


Oh, and wonders: I got a Stock Exchange, instead of a Social Security; due to the wars and the other crud going on, I'm down a little cash on where I had hoped to be, so only had 31 million lying about. I'll hope to save up 40 million this month. ;-]

[Tezkat]

I'd be up for that; if we can get it going, sure. Want me to post over in the PEACE forum looking for partners for such a plan?

Sure. Or I could do it, after I pick out another LOLCat for GLU's thread.

Actually, it may be a good idea to wait until we hear from Kasarn, unless Cog or Valynth want in on the first round...

I think your numbers might be a bit off, too. If we have 4 sellers and 3 buyers, each buyer spends 12, and each seller sends 100 tech each time. That's 400 tech for 12 million, and 1200 tech per month; each buyer gets 200/cycle for 2 of 3 cycles.

Isn't that what I said?


In other news... has anyone taken a look at Sandro's new toy yet? It looks rather interesting.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Actually, it may be a good idea to wait until we hear from Kasarn, unless Cog or Valynth want in on the first round...

Point.

I think your numbers might be a bit off, too. If we have 4 sellers and 3 buyers, each buyer spends 12, and each seller sends 100 tech each time. That's 400 tech for 12 million, and 1200 tech per month; each buyer gets 200/cycle for 2 of 3 cycles.

Isn't that what I said?

Probably, but it wasn't immediately obvious. Maybe I need more tea... ;-]

[Darkdragon]

Something like this:

Tezkat sends $3 million each to our tech sellers. They send 50 tech to llearch and 50 tech to Kasarn. In 10 days, we do the same thing again, only this time llearch buys tech for me and Kasarn. And then again with Kasarn footing the bill. A complete cycle lasts a little over a month. That's 100 tech per month at a cost of $3 million each. No middlemen. If we have four tech sellers, that's 400 tech each at a one time cost of $12 million when it's your turn. If the sellers go all the way back to 0 tech after each shipment, each of them makes a monthly profit of around $4 million.

That's a wonderful idea. However, One drawback to this system is that the 4 tech traders have to be large enough to have invested in a foreign minister because you would need 5 trade slots... (one to accept and 4 sending). This restraint might lower the available tech-trading pool. (Good thing I had the foresight to invest in one)

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Nope.

If Tez pays out to 4 guys, he's got foud outgoing payments, and no incoming.
Each of those four sends 50 tech to each of llearch and Kasarn; they have, then, 1 in and 2 out.

No foreign ministry required.

[Tezkat]

Helpful illustration for the confused:

We have 3 buyers (B1, B2, B3) and 4 sellers (S1, S2, S3, S4).

B1 sends $3 million each to S1, S2, S3, and S4. (4 aid slots used)
S1 sends 50 tech to B2 and 50 tech to B3 (3 aid slots used in total).
S2 sends 50 tech to B2 and 50 tech to B3 (3 aid slots used in total).
S3 sends 50 tech to B2 and 50 tech to B3 (3 aid slots used in total).
S4 sends 50 tech to B2 and 50 tech to B3 (3 aid slots used in total).

Then we wait 11 days for the cycle to restart...

B2 sends $3 million each to S1, S2, S3, and S4. (4 aid slots used)
S1 sends 50 tech to B1 and 50 tech to B3 (3 aid slots used in total).
S2 sends 50 tech to B1 and 50 tech to B3 (3 aid slots used in total).
S3 sends 50 tech to B1 and 50 tech to B3 (3 aid slots used in total).
S4 sends 50 tech to B1 and 50 tech to B3 (3 aid slots used in total).

And repeat again in 11 days...

B3 sends $3 million each to S1, S2, S3, and S4. (4 aid slots used)
S1 sends 50 tech to B1 and 50 tech to B2 (3 aid slots used in total).
S2 sends 50 tech to B1 and 50 tech to B2 (3 aid slots used in total).
S3 sends 50 tech to B1 and 50 tech to B2 (3 aid slots used in total).
S4 sends 50 tech to B1 and 50 tech to B2 (3 aid slots used in total).

Basically, the ones doing the financing are paying for everyone else's tech, not their own. But that's okay, because somebody else picks up the tab for them on the other two cycles.

Did that help or just make it more confusing?


EDIT:

I don't suppose you could miss it given the emptiness of this new board, but I put up a poll to pick our flag. Maybe it'll be easier if we just have to pick a radio button and submit.

[James StarRunner]

I just joined and started up in the alliance and llearch suggested I join 'this tech trading thing'.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Strongly recommended, I think. ;-]

FYI: jump on over to the P.E.A.C.E. forums, and hit the trading forum, once they let you in. (you've got to tell them your alliance and link to your country so they know you're purple) this thread is probably the best one, if they'll have you. Failing that, this one isn't a bad second choice.

Also, as Tez mentioned a little while ago here, put "Elysium Protectorate" into your country description; it'll stop random wannabies from hammering down on you.

[James StarRunner]

Well, joined P.E.A.C.E., but can't trade tech yet with them. Someone did invest in my country though, so I can now supply technology for cheap if anyone here wants it.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Means you're on the list. We'll get back to you when we get organised. ;-]