[comic] Gabriel, pg.6 [02-08-'10]

[WhiteFox]

Figured I ought to repost this here: I'd appreciate feedback on it.

Dekari's CCC Gift:
(Warning: Blood, and some PG13 Nudity)
Page 1
Page 2
Oh, those wacky insane megalomaniacal scientists. Will they ever learn?

(Original post)

[WhiteFox]

I was originally going to post #43 and #44 at the same time, since I'd missed an update somewhere (two comics over three weeks). I decided that, after getting #42 up, Dekari's two pages done, and inking and drawing pg. 44 TWICE that It'd be best if I didn't burn myself out. Last two times that happened, I ended up not posting for a month.

Anyway.

DSOF#44: There is a time for exposition, and a time for action.

Messing around with a new method of shading. Let the record show that I really, really hate cel shading. I always have. If #43 sucked, it was because I just didn't want to do it anymore.

I'd like to cite the following people as inspirational sources:
-Altesentier
-Rhyfe2002
-Adi Granov (Iron Man: Extremis trade paperback)
As well as the tutorials at The Art of Roberto Campus.

Next time, I'm going to have to try using colors other then black for shadows (probably a darker and more saturated base color) and do more with the backgrounds.

[techmaster-glitch]

Oh gosh! detaching the book took off a finger?!

And that's an interesting new shading you are using, but for some reason, it looks...gritty

[WhiteFox]

Oh gosh! detaching the book took off a finger?!

He shape shifted it, right? It's part of his hand.

Yeah... I'm mean to my characters.

And that's an interesting new shading you are using, but for some reason, it looks...gritty

And I like it like that. There are some elements of the process that I need to work out though (the colored shadows, as mentioned before, as well as highlights, hair, and other obstacles). But the major thing I like about it is that it has more texture then straight up cel shading.

It's just that right now, everything is either fur, or fabric, or too dark to really make an impression.

I just noticed how frowney Theo's face was in panel four... dookie.

[SpottedKitty]

<snrk> Nice gag setup.

Agreed about the shading, it does look better and more textured like this. Something odd about Theo in panel 2, though, he seems to be leaning over almost to the point of falling on his muzzle. A perspective effect, maybe?

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Oh gosh! detaching the book took off a finger?!

He shape shifted it, right? It's part of his hand.

According to Amber's layout, it'd be part of his wings - I don't know if you're following that idea, or just somewhere in the same general vicinity of plot.

Not that I'm complaining, mind. The whole "using magic to make the book real" thing would, one expects, work out this way... and it was a lovely surprise...

[Tapewolf]

I liked the gag and the shading is good too.  My only complaint is that it seems to make everything darker.  Maybe that's part of the idea, though.

[WhiteFox]

Something odd about Theo in panel 2, though, he seems to be leaning over almost to the point of falling on his muzzle. A perspective effect, maybe?

He's supposed to be slumped over in resignation. In the first version of the comic, it was a matter of slumped shoulders. I think I went a bit far with this one.

According to Amber's layout, it'd be part of his wings - I don't know if you're following that idea, or just somewhere in the same general vicinity of plot.

In AS2, page 26, the instructor mentions "Fur to Clothes." Likewise, I don't think a 'cubi needs to use their wings to change their appearance, in terms of gender, fur color, or build. It's not much of a stretch to assume that one could form props as easily as clothes, and without the use of their wings.

I don't know if Amber has any cannon material dealing directly with the matter, but that's my reasoning at least.

Of course, there are a few things that threw me off that I didn't realize until it came up in DMFA or AS. I didn't know that long lived races stick in their mid-20s, which means that Theo's parents shouldn't look like they're in their sixties.

Likewise, I didn't realize that Cubi wings were as durable as they were til the climax of the Return of DP arc... I knew they were suitable for offencive purposes, but I didn't think they would be able to, say, parry swords. Which makes some of Felix's character a bit less comprehensible (Although, the fight scene between Felix and Theo was meant to establish that Felix's use of weapons to fight was foolish in concept anyway. So Felix's character still stands as I intended him.

Some topics I have to outright steer clear of, including: WTH went down between dragons and cubi, what SAIA actually looks like, what Fa'lina would think of Theo's Grand Scheme (which is the entire reason Maltorius exists), and some of the races.

But, you know, that's the perils of running a tribute comic.

Not that I'm complaining, mind. The whole "using magic to make the book real" thing would, one expects, work out this way... and it was a lovely surprise...

I'm just glad people liked it. After four weeks of no comments, I was getting kind of disheartened.

[ChaosMageX]

Oh gosh! detaching the book took off a finger?!

He shape shifted it, right? It's part of his hand.

Yeah... I'm mean to my characters.

Is that what the law of sympathy entails?  It doesn't seem very sympathetic to me.

[WhiteFox]

Is that what the law of sympathy entails?  It doesn't seem very sympathetic to me.

And that's why I'm an artist instead of an Arcanist. 

If anyone cares, The Law of Sympathy is as follows: If two things are similar to each other, one can affect one one through the other. Voodoo dolls would be one example. An example from DMFA might include what Hizell did to Siar.

I've got a whole bunch of these rules cobbled together from a variety of sources. I use them whenever I'm running a tabletop game to keep some order to things.

[techmaster-glitch]

I'm just glad people liked it. After four weeks of no comments, I was getting kind of disheartened.

My apologies, I don't know why at least I wasn't saying anything, I actually quite enjoyed the recent comics.

#42:
  I really can't beleive I didn't leave a comment about this one. Jade was very cute in the first few panels; you caught the feline yawn very well, I think (I see my cat yawn all the time). Her sleep-deprived comments are, of course, hilarious .

#43:
  "Tautological Principal of Ontology"... From 'No Ontological Inertia" on TVtropes (if the creator of something is destroyed, the creation is destroyed as well), I can infer that "Ontological" may have something doing with existance or continuity. "Tautological"... had to look this one up, seems to mean something along repetition or reduncancy, so putting the two together would mean something like "repeated existance" or "redundant continuity"...I'm drawing a blank as to how that could be interpreted as a law of magic
  I am also noting that all of Theo's fingers are still clearly attached in this comic

  Anyways, don't get disheartened, man. As said, I have been enjoying this comic very much, and it is quite sad that it hasn't been getting many comments in a few places, and I'm kicking myself for not commenting. However... it is probably obvious that your comic has finally reach 40+ comics and has been online for more than six months...want to try to apply for your very own neat little subforum?

[WhiteFox]

I'm just glad people liked it. After four weeks of no comments, I was getting kind of disheartened.

My apologies, I don't know why at least I wasn't saying anything, I actually quite enjoyed the recent comics.

#42:
  I really can't beleive I didn't leave a comment about this one. Jade was very cute in the first few panels; you caught the feline yawn very well, I think (I see my cat yawn all the time). Her sleep-deprived comments are, of course, hilarious .

I'm better at facial expressions and acting then I am at drawing.   Guh.

#43:
  "Tautological Principal of Ontology"... From 'No Ontological Inertia" on TVtropes (if the creator of something is destroyed, the creation is destroyed as well), I can infer that "Ontological" may have something doing with existance or continuity. "Tautological"... had to look this one up, seems to mean something along repetition or reduncancy, so putting the two together would mean something like "repeated existance" or "redundant continuity"...I'm drawing a blank as to how that could be interpreted as a law of magic

A Tautology is the opposite of an oxymoron: A statement that is self evident. EG: "Nothing succeeds like success." or "Wet water." (An oxymoron being something that is self contradictory: EG, "We had to burn the village to save it" or "Military Intelligence")

The Tautological Principal of Ontology:
-That which exists, exists. (Ontology)
-This principal is proven by the fact that that which exists exists, even if you can logically prove that it doesn't or can't. (Thus, the principal itself is tautological: it proves itself.)

It's significant because it lets magic users defend the Scientific Method against Metaphysics (How do you know you know? Well, you don't need to know how you know, you just need to know that you do know. Whether or not you know you know, it's still true).

Also useful whenever someone exclaims 'That's impossible!". Of course it's possible. It exists, or (in the case of an improbable event,) it happened.

(What makes this funny to me is that it's a Base Assertion Fallacy (I think). But then, I'm incredibly nerdy.)

  I am also noting that all of Theo's fingers are still clearly attached in this comic

In #43, Theonor was still in the shape of the cleric. At that point in time, The book was formed from from his body, and his hand and he still had all his fingers. When the book was separated from his hand, that mass was removed from his body while the rest of his hand retained it's shape.

When he returned to his natural shape, he was still missing that mass. It had to come from somewhere, namely his finger. If there's any real plot hole there, it's that the mass of the hand would have been significantly less then the mass of the book. The book, while attached, could have been very porous, or only a thin shell (I'm assuming there's a conservation of mass related to Cubi's shapeshifting, or they'd all be 9ft tall like Fa'Lina, and they get more mass as they get more powerful, whatever the rules behind are). Once Theolonius enchanted the book, though, it became identical to the original.

Theo could have formed the book from the mass of his wings, but trying to show this in a clear way (That a missing piece of his wing was related to the book being removed) would have been very difficult for me to draw. The way I've shown it was meant to be easier for the reader to understand, since he was holding the book in his hand.

Anyways, don't get disheartened, man. As said, I have been enjoying this comic very much...

I cannot express how glad I am to hear that. Thank you very much.

It is probably obvious that your comic has finally reach 40+ comics and has been online for more than six months...want to try to apply for your very own neat little subforum?

I did.

The mods had some concerns: one or two month long hiatuses that broke my 6 month streak (mostly due to typical artistic-crisis-breakdowns) and the fact that I do not yet have a main page for DSOF... it's in the works.

All of which I agree with, though I was really looking forward to a forum. C'est la vie.

[WhiteFox]

DSOF #45

Still experimenting with shading. Ongoing process.

If anyone's wondering why it took me more then a month and a half to finish this page, all I'm going to say is that August was not in the least bit pleasant or comfortable for me.

Things feel back on track, tho. Back to regular updates, I hope.

Comments and critiques appreciated.

[hapless]

I guess that's not the type of comment that you're most interested in, but I can't resist:
That Warp-Aci looks way more humanoid in form than what we're used to...

And good to know that your situation got better, no matter what happened.

//h

[WhiteFox]

I guess that's not the type of comment that you're most interested in, but I can't resist:
That Warp-Aci looks way more humanoid in form than what we're used to...

And good to know that your situation got better, no matter what happened.

//h

By all means, I appreciate the comment.

Short answer:
Warp-Aci appearances are entirely customizable by their owner. Ntpxl is a book, for example.

Long answer:
I can not draw cute things. But I'm okay with that. 

[Tapewolf]

Cool, I was afraid this had died.

From their expressions and posture in panel 2, I thought they were dancing at first.  That would then have made the scene change into some kind of flashback.  I got it in the end, though.
I am kind of curious whose Warp-Aci the blue one is, though.  For 'Cubi it seems to match the clan colour, and I thought his was yellow.  That might just be convention, rather than necessity, mind.

[WhiteFox]

Actually, I didn't think a clan marking was a set colour... Theolonius' mark is yellow, but Theonor's is blue. Wynk is blue since he's Theonors Aci. Of course, since Warp-Aci are customizable (possibly including their color), that might all be moot anyway.

In the first panel, I was really going for a "shall we dance?" kind of pose. I'm glad that much worked. Confusing, though... confusing not good. Thanks for the feedback.

[Tapewolf]

Actually, I didn't think a clan marking was a set colour... Theolonius' mark is yellow, but Theonor's is blue. Wynk is blue since he's Theonors Aci. Of course, since Warp-Aci are customizable (possibly including their color), that might all be moot anyway.

I've lost track of who Theolonius is.  No cast page, either...  
As for the clan marks, I'm not quite sure what you're saying about them being 'a set colour', so I guess I'll describe how it works as best I know.

The clan mark is the same for all members of the clan, that obviously means it will be the same colour for everyone officially in the clan.
Different clans may or may not have different coloured markings to each other.
You can also have a situation where a given 'Cubi's parents are of different clans (the child has the clan mark of the stronger clan).  That may mean that Theo's father has a different marking to Theo himself if his mother belonged to the more powerful clan.

With the warp acis, my understanding (which may be wrong) is that they are given a marking as part of the binding ritual.  For Angels, Demons, whoever, that might be their family crest or their initials or just some doodle (must find Amber's ref for that and add to wiki).

The colour seems to be set at the point of binding (we have never, ever seen one change except for Fi when it was un-bound from Fa'Lina).  So it looks to me like they can change shape, but the colour is locked during the binding and cannot be changed without doing something drastic like banishing them and re-summoning them.

By convention, 'Cubi seem to use their clan marking as the symbol for the binding - and Fa'Lina used Dan's clan when reconfiguring Fi for him.  Whether it absolutely has to be their clan mark or whether they just do it to save them the bother of inventing a marking, is something I do not know.

EDIT:

Here we are:
http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,6163.msg284421.html#msg284421

[WhiteFox]

I've lost track of who Theolonius is.  No cast page, either...  
As for the clan marks, I'm not quite sure what you're saying about them being 'a set colour', so I guess I'll describe how it works as best I know.

Theolonius is Theonor's dad. (Maltorius was calling him 'Loonie.)

Thanks for the info.

[Mao]

The spotted chick seems to have ears that appear and disappear throughout the panels.  The horns also seem to change size in the third panel.  The thing with the blue headwings either grew in the second panel or is shapeshifting to various sizes. That said his headwings are shifting constantly in color so it's believable.  Maybe it's not the same fellow though, as it looks like the fellow in the second panel has a tail.  Also, it looks like the wings on the spotted lady keep changing in size with relation to the rest of her, but maybe that's just perspective.  The spotted lady also seems to have eye whites in the third panel, but not in the first or fourth.

The shading/coloring on the spotted lady's jeans looks nice.  You should apply this to the rest of the clothes. 
----------------
Now playing: Yoko Kanno, The Seatbelts - Time To Know
via FoxyTunes

[WhiteFox]

Mao: Thanks. I'm really bad for stuff like ears and tails and such... you know, little things like that.

Anyhoo... I finally managed to borrow my parents digital camera, and took some pictures of some of the chain mail work I do.

A few things to note,

- I do not use pre-made rings. All the chainmail you see here started off as spools of wire. The wire is wrapped around a metal rod and wound into coils, like a spring. Then rings are cut off the end of the coil, one at a time, with either wire cutters ("Pinch cuts") or a jewelers saw ("Saw Cuts"). That's right: each ring is hand made.
- Before you mention it, and I get this comment a lot, this work is not armor. It's jewelry. It's not meant to stop a knife or anything like that. I know the process for making medieval, armor grade, chain mail. It's scary.
- In total, the tools for all this cost about 25 bucks, and you can get them at almost any hardware store when you know what and where to look.
- I have made a lot of chain mail in my time, but most of it gets sold or was done on commission. This is my private collection, so to speak.

Bracelet:
Small
Large
Me ma commissioned this as a present for my grandmother. It's about 4/5ths done.
Material: Sterling Sliver, 22 ga, saw cut links.
Ring count: apx. 250

Handflower 1:
A hand flower, or slave bracelet, is a bracelet connects to a ring on the finger and covers the back of the hand. The first one I made was a little more elaborate, with a loop around the thumb.
Back
Plam
Material: 318 surgical stainless steel, pinch cut.
Ring count: apx. 1020

This was the first handflower I'd made. I still wear it sometimes.

Gauntlet:
After I made the handflower, I went for something more... substantial.
Back
Side
Palm
Back, HiRes
Side, HiRes
Plam, HiRes
Material: 318 surgical stainless steel, pinch cuts.
Ring count: apx. 1800

It's much more comfortable then it looks; I can make a fist while wearing it without hurting my hand, and it doesn't restrict the fingers at all. It's not really a finished project: the fingertips aren't all done, and the one that is there isn't sized properly (you can see it's a bit loose). I probably won't finnish it, since I had a major face-palm moment over a design issue (another one is in the works). Still, I think it looks cool.

[EDIT: Accidently hit post before I was done. D'oh.]
[EDIT2: More pieces coming later.]

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Cute. What's a Plam? ;-]

Do you take requests? What are your rates?

[WhiteFox]

A plam is what I slap against my face when I make a spelling mistake. *Plam*

Prices depend on the piece.

I usually work with steel or copper, and rarely use colored wire. If I use beads, they're usually natural stone. Tigers eye, hematite, jet, etc. I don't mind working with plastic coated wire, for color, on request. I do have some enameled copper wire in a few colors. The number of weaves I know, and their variations, is too long to list here. I'll have to post pics of sample pieces when I can get them.

Most of the work I do is made on commission, or by request. Headdresses, hand flowers, and necklaces should be sized, and bracelets are easy enough to make that I knit them as needed.

Chain mail takes time. I can make a simple byzantine bracelet in 2 hours for 15$, and factoring in material cost I'm almost making minimum wage.

Prices are in Canadian.

7" bracelets, 15-25$
The most common thing I sell. These can vary in design quite a bit, hence the range in price.

Simple handflower, 40$
Single strand around the wrist and two strands going from the wrist to the finger. I've only made one of these for sale. More elaborate ones, like the first one I posted, might cost from 50-60$, depending on the design.

Fine necklaces, 50$
Usually done in 20 ga wire. I don't do very many of these.

Bracers, 30-60$ depending on wire ga.
Covers the wrist to forearm.

Mens Heavy Neck Chains, 35$
Nothing says you mean business like 2 lbs. of 14 ga. steel. Once, I sold one of these to a guy in a KISS tribute band.

Headdresses, 40-50$
These are usually a simple band around the head, and some sort of embellishment on the front. I have a friend that has sold more elaborate ones for 120$ and up.

Earrings and pendants, 5-7.50$

There is such a thing as micro-mail; 28 to 34 ga beading wire, and ring diameters of 0.8 millimeters and less. I've made an inch or two of the stuff, just to try. I might be convinced to do something in micro-mail, but I couldn't reliably estimate the cost of such a thing. Maybe 50-80$ for a simple bracelet.

The Sterling Silver bracelet, from the post above, was about 80$, for a couple of reasons:
-Silver. Is not. Cheap.
-Since silver is not cheap, I went the extra mile and cut the links with a jewelers saw instead of side cutters. This makes the "seam" of the closed ring much less noticeable, which looks nicer, and the rings do a better job of not falling apart.
-Smaller wire means smaller rings. The smaller the rings, the more rings you need per inch. 22 ga wire is as small as I usually work with, if I'm making something to sell.

I don't do garments. Coifs and shirts take a bloody long time to make, and lingerie has to be fitted by hand. In person. Well, I might do lingerie if you're female, twenty-something, and think unemployed artist-geeks are cute. Other then that, you're out of luck.

There is a disclaimer: chainmail can, and will, fall apart or break at times. I do everything I can to minimize this, and I've been chain-smithing for almost ten years, but it still happens. I'm very particular about cutting and closing the rings properly, which goes a long way. I always use the smallest diameter rings possible; this makes the links less prone to spreading open when under stress (and it looks nicer, too). I do repairs for free, even if I didn't make the chain mail.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Interesting.

At present, outside budget - and shipping would sting a bit, too. But interesting nonetheless.

[WhiteFox]

DSOF #46 Is up.
I could not, for the life of me, get a decent background for the second last panel done. Also, I have got to get better at composing panels to accommodate text. And use less dialog in general. (But then, each location could have been a page in itself, so I'm not surprised)

Any way, comments and critiques appreciated.

[techmaster-glitch]

Ooh, shopping

I like how, instead of actually having his hair done, Theo just has an instructor tell him what to do I guess that would be how that service is done for Cubi...


One thing I will note: As far as I have seen in DMFA, "ch'ya" seems to be more of an exclamation, not an acknowledgement or affirmative.

[ChaosMageX]

One thing I will note: As far as I have seen in DMFA, "ch'ya" seems to be more of an exclamation, not an acknowledgement or affirmative.

I agree, that warp-aci word is really more of an exclamation without any meaning.

It reminds me of how Sakura in the dubbed Naruto episodes would also say "ch'ya" as an exclamation.

In that case it's probably just a dubbed substitute for some Japanese phrase that has no real (short) English translation, just like how Naruto wasn't originally saying "believe it" when he says "believe it" in the dub.

But hey, I guess it's sort of the same thing here, since I remember reading somewhere that "ch'ya" was a warp-aci word that has no meaning in any language known on Furrae.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Heh. Here's my credit card. ;-]

I expect the shop assistant to become suddenly _much_ more helpful. ;-]

[Tapewolf]

From the dialogue, I'm a little confused as to whether he's pawned a platinum ring there, or whether (as the imagery seems to say) the ring has his clan symbol or some similar mark and they're accepting that as a mark of his credit-worthiness.

Other than that, nice work.  Good to see that 'Cubi are a bit more integrated in Zinvth than in Abel's youth.

What's with the halo, though?

[Corgatha Taldorthar]

From the dialogue, I'm a little confused as to whether he's pawned a platinum ring there, or whether (as the imagery seems to say) the ring has his clan symbol or some similar mark and they're accepting that as a mark of his credit-worthiness.

I assumed the latter, as he's stamping it into some sealing wax and showing it.